Light Poles -- How do you install them?

[Ronsii]

So lately we have had quite a few call to straighten light poles that have been hit... usually backed into by semi's but sometimes they get sideswiped or even hit head on!!

For the most part when I lift the hardware cover there are still some threads showing and there is one nut and washer on the top and likewise on the bottom under the light pole base plate....

however the other day I ran across a couple that someone had cemented or grouted right up to the base plate and when I thought I would chip the grout out to access the lower nut I found they had stacked nuts under it so you couldn't go lower...




And on top of all that they had cut off the extra threads so you cant go up either...




So... back to my curiosity... why would someone install them like this??? osha thing??? safety???

 

[DIYDAVE]

or so that the contractor that installed them gets the monopoly on fixin 'em...

 

[crane operator]

The ones I've installed like this, they pour the round column with the tube forms, set the anchor bolts in those. They use the nuts on the bottom and the top to level the pole. Then to "fully" support the pole, they put non shrink grout in under the pole plate.

I'm sure that's how its spec out in the manufacturer of the pole's installation, per a engineer. Bolts under and on top is really the best way to level out the smaller poles.

I just reread yours ronsii- I didn't see the multiple nuts on the bottom side, I don't know why they would do that.

 

[Junkyard]

I’ve seen multiple nuts used to make up for a poorly leveled cage and anchor bolts....wrong elevation etc. Generally on larger cell towers. Same concept just bigger. When we do them they’re dead on. No need for grout. I’ll have to ask the tower guys what they’d do to repair that.

 

[Bls repair]

They use double nuts so they can lock them together so they don’t move

 

[Jeckyl1920]

What bls said, which isn't necessary.

Another possibility is they weren't straight and the guy that was sent to bend the bolts didn't run the top nuts to the top before bending. This could wreck the threads at the nuts.

Regardless, you have an issue. The solution. Have the electrician lock out the power to the poles, and pull them off. Finish breaking the grout out and clean the concrete off the threads to see if you can get the nuts loose. This would be the "cheap labor" way of fixing them. Since you have to get the pole down because you have no bolt left, this is really your only option.

If you can't get the nuts off, you have to cut them off and grout new bolts with engineer approved epoxy. This option may very well suck and be super expensive depending on the engineering overkill, but they should be about a foot to 18" deep. The expensive part being, the light pole base would need to be modified as well, whether by re-welding the plate to the pole or some other means. No one likes doing this, and your drilled holes have to be right on the money.

The other option being, dig out the conduit, pull the wires out of the base, demo and pour a new one.

Needless to say, your job has been highly complicated by someone who doesn't know what they are doing. Those nuts are generally expensive, and come with the concrete guys. They don't carry spares, so how they ended up with at least 8 extra, if not more, AND the guys that hung the lights didn't take them off.... I don't know. Best guess, the bolts were put together wrong, and the concrete guys started the problem.

Regardless of all the swearing at dumb people, you really want to get those nuts off. Every speck of concrete matters. Wire brushes, wire wheels for grinders, hammers, possibly a small sledge, and possibly a screw driver, chisel, dental tool, whatever to get every spot of concrete off the threads. You want room under the nuts as well to possibly run it down, even a hair just to break it loose. There will likely be a small bit of concrete at the top of the nut on the threads. You can buy concrete patch for cheap to fix the top of the light standard, so don't be afraid to make a hole, just dont make it a huge hole.

So, long story short, take the poles down and fix it properly with blood, sweat and tears. Good luck.

 

[old-iron-habit]

It sounds to me like the contractor followed the spec and did it right. If you can chip the grout and turn the bottom nut off, the engineer may let you install a coupler nut on the stub and then turn a proper length cap screw in from the top. It will all depend on weight, height, wind load etc. Many specs require stacked shims to hold the weight instead of just the nuts, especially on large poles. As said many times the best option is often to dig out the base set the new Sono tube and J bolts and repour. Be aware that some conservative designers may make you drill deeper to get into virgin soil again. We have also at times been allowed to bolt a larger plate on the pier with new anchors and then weld the original base to the new one. No one can see that inch difference in height.

 

[Ronsii]

These were not very big at all, went ahead and side dug them then used the 36 mini to pull them into level... as easy as they moved probably have done it by hand we have run into others that were only 'about' 2 feet of bury before but they had been poured on top of a rat slab( didn't stick) but had to use the ex120 to straighten them.

The one thing that surprised me about these two especially if they were 'done to spec' was why did they cut the top threads off? normally for maximum strength you need at least a diameter of length threads showing.... oh also there are more than 2 nuts on the bottom that's why I quit chipping in the first pic, if they just had a jamb nut under the first one I'd have went ahead and chipped under them but someone outsmarted me


In the past 10 years we have probably straightened 15-25 a year but lately it seems like some one is putting big 'Hit Me' signs on em'....

 

[old-iron-habit]

These were not very big at all, went ahead and side dug them then used the 36 mini to pull them into level... as easy as they moved probably have done it by hand we have run into others that were only 'about' 2 feet of bury before but they had been poured on top of a rat slab( didn't stick) but had to use the ex120 to straighten them.

The one thing that surprised me about these two especially if they were 'done to spec' was why did they cut the top threads off? normally for maximum strength you need at least a diameter of length threads showing.... oh also there are more than 2 nuts on the bottom that's why I quit chipping in the first pic, if they just had a jamb nut under the first one I'd have went ahead and chipped under them but someone outsmarted me


In the past 10 years we have probably straightened 15-25 a year but lately it seems like some one is putting big 'Hit Me' signs on em'....

Two feet only? WOW. The wind probably leans them over time. Here because of the deep frost lifting them the pier has to go down 7 ft. minimum.

 

[Junkyard]

We’ve been doing a 180 light pole holes on a big job.....spec is down to rock/shale. Some are 12-14’ deep!! Talk about overkill sheesh.

 

[Ronsii]

12 feet!!! holy cow!!! well I guess the bases won't tip when something hits them

Most of the ones I was doing the other day were the precast 6-7 footers but the trailers hit them right at the top of the base... that way the truck driver knows when to stop backing up of course after a few hits a day it doesn't take to many months(or days) to get em' leaning pretty good.... then there are the ones that they bury about 6-8 inches lower that way the trailer can hit the metal light pole and bend it.

 

[Jeckyl1920]

The grout looks to be pretty thick. If you took the second nut out you would have room to get an inch of bolt out, right?

Anyways, usually the smaller light poles have "J" bolts on them, so the extra nuts don't make sense.

If they had anchor plates on the bottom it would make sense that they didn't put them together right.


I've only seen these at canopy columns at gas stations or multi story buildings.

Anyways, glad you got them over. The standards here in so cal range from 4 to 7 feet into the dirt in parking lots. Just just saw 2 go in last week that were 12 feet. That was a first. Had a lot of #6 rebar in it and ties at 6". The things were heavier than structural column footings.

 

[Ronsii]

That sounds like what they need to do in these warehouse areas that have wild trailers in them

Here is one I just noticed today... they haven't bent the metal pole yet but will soon.

 

[Jeckyl1920]

I had to replace 2 12" pipe bollards and a slab around a DEF pump at a truck stop in Indio. There's not much that's tougher than that.... without getting expensive.

That base is really low.... I think that pole will get sheared off eventually.

 

[Ronsii]

when they put a loaded trailer in there it hits about 3 inches below the top of concrete empties barely hit and bounce up then hit the steel plate.

We've been putting in 12 inchers lately for certain areas the warehouse owners want more protected...like this roof access ladder that got smashed they're in an 8 inch slab to boot so shouldn't go anywhere now



I have seen some of the semi fueling stations around here go for 'deflector protection' at least that's what I call em' kinda like an eco block size with a good angle to it so the tires rub up it then get pushed over.

 

[Ronsii]

I can fit a over a dozen on the flatbed no problem


but when we upsize to the next bigger ones we might have to have em' delivered...

 

[hosspuller]

Cheap & tough is good in truck protection. Last factory I was at, had a s-curved driveway with speed bumps to slow everybody after a few near misses. The truckers would drive around the bumps. The 6 inch concrete filled poles didn't stop the drive arounds. The 5 foot per side rocks from the construction excavation did.

 

[Ronsii]

The drawback with rocks is the truckers we have around here find a way to drag then into the paved area and when that don't work they get stuck on them

 

[Ronsii]

Here's one they drug out, the rock that is still in the planter area is buried in 10 inches of cement with all the river rock stuck in it... we put this in to stop em from pulling that one out so then they cut the corner tighter and grabbed the one behind it!!!

 

[Jeckyl1920]

Time for a bigger rock! Lol

A near neighbor of my mom has boulders all over their front yard to keep drunks off the lawn and out of the living room.

Some were good 4 ton rocks.