Light Duty Trucks & Gooseneck Trailers

[Dualie]

Anybody not under Kalifornia law that can respond. Thanks

Those are the USDOT guidelines. Not just CA.

 

[mbvigil]

I have a Dodge 2500 but I'm putting a rear axle off a 3500 dually, and front spindles off of a 3500. Does anyone know if the DOT would just laugh at me if I explained why my truck is a bootleg one ton?

 

[Dualie]

yes they would just laugh at you.

 

[jca57jd]

Hey guys,
I have been talking to some guys on a diesel truck form and most of them tow campers some and aren’t really familiar with every day towing like all of you. I’m looking to buy a truck in about 3 months and I have been looking at a f350 srw, f350 drw, and f450. Now I am going to be towing 3 main things.

1. A 5500 ib tandem axle tagalong with a 9500 ib excavator. Total 15000 ib (15% tong weight would be 2250 ib). I would probably pull this around 10000 miles a year
2. A 5500 ib tandem axle tagalong with a 8000 ib skid loader. Total 13500 ib (15% tong weight would be 2025 ib). I would pull this around 15000 miles a year
3. A 19500 ib hydroseeder tagalong (The trailer caries the majority of the weight on the trailer axles so 15% tong weight would be 2925 ib). I would pull this around 8000 miles a year.

Now all of the guys on the diesel forum talk about gcwr and I am like yawl, I don’t ever pay attention to that. I always look at the rear axle weight. I would prefer to get the f350 srw and it has a 11500 gvwr and it says that you can haul around 3580 in the bed. Do you think this truck would suit me good? I know most of yawl like a dually for pulling allot do to more control and preventing trailer swaying. I own a big 33000 gvw single axel that I will pull my equipment with when debris or dirt needs to be hauled. I’m just looking to get me a good every day driver that will work for me and get half way decent fuel mileage. What do yawl guys recommend me getting? Will me with all of your great towing knowledge!

Thanks,
John

 

[Cretebaby]

Those are the USDOT guidelines. Not just CA.

What is?

 

[tbone1471]

John, going with a tag trailer at those weights is too much for a srw truck. I have an srw chevy and moved a 10,000lb skid loader on a 4,500 lb tag. It sucks. I have moved a case 580 with it as well and it is so much worse. White knuckle rides. It is not worth the risk of losing the truck and trailer not to mention all the insurance issues that come along if the trailer separates from the truck. Those weights will push that truck and it is so much more important that the equipment is placed in just the right spot.

I guess it boils down to; can it do it? Yes. Is it comfortable and safe? No.

 

[WV earth mover]

Boy i never relized how lucky we are here in WV ive been dot checked around 10-12 times over the last few years and have never even heard of a dot officer checking the door post weight if they did most of us could only haul 1000 pounds in our f350 size dumps and maybe 3 tons in a 550 . I own both sizes and have always wondered why my s10 pickup can haul more than my f350 according to the door we buy plates to cover about 3 ton on a 350 and 6 ton on a 550 . Even our L9000 dump only has a door weight of 35000 and is legal here with 40000 if you buy the plates . Now with combo weights we generally dont go full GVW on both when buying tags for the truck just light weight for both plus what ever you plan on putting on the trailer mainly because ive never felt the need to put 10 of gravel in the dump while towing a tag with a 10 ton exc on it to me thats crazy although i see it once in a while ive never wanted to pay the extra money for the plate and the extra insurance for higher gvw . I know guys with 35000 tags on a f350 to cover there truck with dual tandem gooseneck but who really should be putting 20000 pounds on a trailer behind a truck that size .All because the tv comm says you can doesnt mean you should .

 

[victor66]

F350...

There seems to be a lot of confusion when it comes light duty trucks and Gooseneck trailers. I want to chime in my thoughts and knowledge on this matter cause i myself have registered a Ford F-550 truck and Gooseneck trailer. There are so many combination's of trucks and trailers out there, People do Dodge trucks with Gooseneck trailers, they are a dime a dozen i see them everywhere, Ford F-550 an Ford F450's are common too, trailers vary from pintle hooks to Goosenecks to fifth wheels.

Now, Ford F-450 Trucks are good for 15,000lbs that means that the truck alone as a single is good for 15,000lbs less the gross weight of the truck, so we'll say the truck weighs roughly 7000lbs you can haul 8000lbs or 4 ton on the truck only.
Combination is registered different, Ford F-450, good for 15,000lbs and we'll say you have a 12,000lbs tandem trailer, that gives you a gross weight of 27,000lbs total gross weight you can carry, less the empty weight we'll say the truck again weighs in at 7000lbs and depending on the length of the trailer we'll just say it weighs 7000lbs as well, So truck an Trailer in Combo is good for a gross weight of 27,000lbs your empty weight is 14,000lbs, this gives you 13,000lbs that you can legally haul in this combination.

I have a Ford F-550, the MFG rated weight on the truck alone is 17,500lbs, I have a 22,000lbs Gooseneck trailer made by Big Tex it's the 22GN model it's a tandem dually 35 foot long with an upper deck. When you add the 17,500lbs for the Ford F-550 and the 22,000lbs trailer together it gives you a gross weight of 39,500lbs. I know it sounds like a lot for such a small truck which it is. I've plated the truck Registration in Combo for 40,000lbs, you need a class A CDL no air brake to drive this truck because it's over the 25,999lbs Registration.
Now the Ford F-550 and Big Tex 22GN empty weigh about 17,500lbs, which allows me to legally scale 22,500lbs. And believe me anyone who knows anything about Fords and the Navistar 6.0 or 6.4 motor knows that motor doesn't like anything more than about 18,000lbs on the trailer, at least from my experience.

I've also built a Peterbilt single axle to take the place of my Ford F-550 because like posted in previous threads this kinda weight calls for a bigger application. Just a short explanation on how my new truck will be registered, 1997 Pete 357 cab and Chassis, front axle is a 12,000lbs axle, rear axle is a 23,000lbs axle, makes the truck alone good for 35,000lbs less the empty weight of roughly 18,000lbs allows me to scale 17,000lbs on the truck only, in combination we'll use Big Tex 22GN which is good for 22,000lbs plus my trucks weight of 35,000lbs give me a Registered weight of 57,000lbs
Of course don't forget to subtract you empty weight of we'll say 29,000lbs allows me to legally carry 28,000lbs. Now in this application understand that the trailer is only good for 22,000lbs. I've built the truck with a 15ft flatbed, when the Gooseneck is hooked to this truck i will have about 10ft of bed in front of were my trailer hooks to my truck allowing me to put machine attachments or other misc things up there, allowing me to use all of my registered weight of 57,000lbs or payload of 28,000lbs, break it down more simple, 57000lbs registered weight less the empty weight of 29,000lbs brings us to 28,000lbs, i load the trailer with a full 22,000lbs and i use my added 10ft of deck on the truck for a remainder 6000lbs, add em all up 6000lbs + 22,000lbs = 28,000lbs + empty weight of 29,000lbs = 57,000lbs.....plain an simple

For you Dodge guys it's basically the same thing, if i was to own a dodge i would have a Cummins diesel motor and manual transmission to control the power, it's the same scenario, we'll say you have a Dodge 3500 series truck dually of course that truck is rated for 11,500lbs. I'm gonna use my Big Tex Application again at 22,000lbs this allows a gross weight of 33,500lbs less you empty weight of now I'm guessing here, we'll say an empty weight of 12,500lbs this will allow you to legally haul 21,000lbs. Will the truck like it, Probably not....

I know a guy who has a Dodge 3500 series truck with just the specs i listed, he pulls a Gooseneck dump trailer, it's only a tandem trailer good for 12,000lbs, his truck is good for the MFG weight of 11,500 plus his trailer at 12,000lbs gives him a gross registered weight of 23,500lbs less his empty weight of 10,000lbs allows him to haul 13,500lbs. He does 3 to 4 times a week an never has any problems.

This is all factual information, i've been to local D.O.T seminars and have used my truck and trailer to show people the right and wrong way of registering, securing and licensing a driver to drive a vehicle just like this. This Combination works with any light duty truck, GMC, Dodge, Ford, Internationals single axle Pete's and Kw's. It's all simple math depending on trailer GVW and Truck GVW. The only difference between your Pete's Internationals an Kw's is that those trucks more than likely will have air brakes which requires you to have your CDL with air brakes. Also i've seen guys build these combo's out of F-650's and F-750 Cab and chassis.

Also remember this, i don't know how your states are but in Pa they don't plate trucks in Combination for we'll say 32,500lbs or 39,500lbs which I'm using my application for an example, i had to plate it for 40,000lbs in combination because that was the closest i could get to 39,500lbs, also i had to have an inspection garage sign off on the application for this registration verifying that the weight i was registering for was in compliance with the MFG weights such as the Ford F-550 at 17,500 and the Big Tex 22GN at 22,000lbs. Also when you Register this kinda weight your plates can get costly. I pay about $586.00 annually for a 40,000lbs class registration.

Any Q's feel free to ask.......As an owner operator and family business owner i'm based on 35 years experience 17 years of my own, Heavy Hauling is what we do. I haul mini line of equipment on a daily basis an this is how it works!!

Below are a few links of my smaller truck and my big truck just so you get an idea

Ford F-550
http://b6.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/0...44324696_l.jpg
http://a564.ac-images.myspacecdn.com...bd43e9afe3.jpg
http://a414.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/89/l_c93c06f2013d1b8751a36724fbbea8bd.jpg


1997 Pete to replace F-550
http://a547.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/59/l_7c5b4cd88f3bf4344052faf872bc768a.jpg

1999 Pete
http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m391/jcoates75/DSC01794.jpg
http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m391/jcoates75/DSC01795.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/J6Coates/Linkbelt RT80100/DSC01673.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/J6Coates/Linkbelt RT80100/DSC01671.jpg

I would like to know if my 1990 F350 Dually can pull a 3 car wedge trailer?, I was told that I should change out the front and rear axles from an F450 into my F350?. Can anyone help me out on this?

 

[2stickbill]

I would like to know if my 1990 F350 Dually can pull a 3 car wedge trailer?, I was told that I should change out the front and rear axles from an F450 into my F350?. Can anyone help me out on this?

Well I am not positive but would all most bet the F350 and F450 axles are the same just the springs are heavier.Check with a Ford Dealer and they can tell you if I'm right.

 

[06Pete]

On a 1990 450 it has 10 blot wheels where as a 350 has the standard 8 blot pattern als the 450 has disc brakes all the way around I think I know a 95 450 does. I also think the 450 has a solid front axle. You can change it all you want but it wont change a thing for the dot or your insurance it goes by the door tag and the vin#

 

[steveme]

Hello people, I am new to this site and am glad I found it. I am a bit confussed as to what size trailer I can use with my truck and the actual weight my truck will be able to tow. I resently installed a gooseneck hitch to my 2001 chevy silverado dualie 3500 8.1 engine. The hitch is rated at 30,000 lbs. My decal on the truck door says the truck's gvwr is 11400 lbs. I did a quick look through on the manual because the truck is set up with a tow system installed and it claims the total wieght for towing would be 15000 lbs. I am not worried about the license because I hold a class A CDL. I haven't drove commercially but have drove privately and only with a box truck. Am not very smart when it comes to these weights and combinations. So can anyone tell me what my situation is with thois combination? Will my truck be able to handle the 15000 lb load? I am assuming the combined rating would be 26,400 which falls into a commercial license. Thanks for any help.

 

[steveme]

You are wrong on air brake endorsements. Anyone driving a truck , bus , etc with air brakes has to be endorsed for them Wheather you have a cdl or not. I know I have taken the test as part of a cdl license. If your not endorsed you will be ticketed.

 

[jca57jd]

Hey Steveme,
You need to find out what your gcwr (gross combined weight rating) is on your truck. Gcwr and gvwr (gross vehicle weight rating) are two completley different things. If you want to know how much you can pull following your gcwr then you would take that number and subtract the overall weight of your truck and everything that will be on and in it (gcwr-truck weight = amount you can pull). I am not sure what the laws are in your state but here in NC I have never followed my gcwr for how much I can pull. I have pulled my 18000 pound hydroseeder with a f250 many of times (truck weighs around 8500 loaded so gcw was 8500 + 18000 = 26500). However I have hurd that they are starting to get stricter on following the manufacts ratings. Oh I have my class A cdl and you are correct about the airbrake endoresment, if you drive a truck that has a gvwr or is tagged over 26,000 that has air brakes then you half to have you air brake endoresment. However alot of the newer aged chevy 4500 have airbrakes but you dont have to have your cdls to drive it unless it is tagged over 26,000 because the gvwr is not over 26,000 alone. I have been pulled several times driving a airbrake 4500 with out my cdl's or a air brake endoresment......... KEEP in mind that this is my state laws and your may verry some. I hope that helps you out! Let me know if I can help you any other way!!

 

[mx727]

Ford has published the GCWR for their trucks as far back as I can remember. Here is a link to the 2012 Superduty guides: http://www.ford.com/resources/ford/general/pdf/towingguides/12FLRV&TT_SuperDtyPUnov17.pdf

 

[steveme]

Hey Steveme,
You need to find out what your gcwr (gross combined weight rating) is on your truck. Gcwr and gvwr (gross vehicle weight rating) are two completley different things. If you want to know how much you can pull following your gcwr then you would take that number and subtract the overall weight of your truck and everything that will be on and in it (gcwr-truck weight = amount you can pull). I am not sure what the laws are in your state but here in NC I have never followed my gcwr for how much I can pull. I have pulled my 18000 pound hydroseeder with a f250 many of times (truck weighs around 8500 loaded so gcw was 8500 + 18000 = 26500). However I have hurd that they are starting to get stricter on following the manufacts ratings. Oh I have my class A cdl and you are correct about the airbrake endoresment, if you drive a truck that has a gvwr or is tagged over 26,000 that has air brakes then you half to have you air brake endoresment. However alot of the newer aged chevy 4500 have airbrakes but you dont have to have your cdls to drive it unless it is tagged over 26,000 because the gvwr is not over 26,000 alone. I have been pulled several times driving a airbrake 4500 with out my cdl's or a air brake endoresment......... KEEP in mind that this is my state laws and your may verry some. I hope that helps you out! Let me know if I can help you any other way!!

I understand the gcwr and gvwr difference. My truck's gvwr is 11400 lbs. But the sticker doesn't give me a gcwr. The manual says I can tow 12000lb and if I have a gooseneck or fifthwheel it goes to 15600 lbs. I am just trying to confirm I guess what the manual says because of lack of info on door sticker.

 

[CM1995]

You are wrong on air brake endorsements. Anyone driving a truck , bus , etc with air brakes has to be endorsed for them Wheather you have a cdl or not. I know I have taken the test as part of a cdl license. If your not endorsed you will be ticketed.

No that is not correct. State CDL laws vary but they all have to follow the Fed's minimum requirements. In Alabama all you need to drive a 25.5K GVW truck with air brakes is a valid drivers license and a medical card. Like I said, it varies by State. A State can have stricter rules but not lessor rules than the Federal guidelines, just like State OSHA programs they must follow OSHA rules but have the option to be stricter.