Large Dozer costs

[Sparkiefarmer]

Hello Everyone, long time reader first time poster.
I'm thinking of taking on a large land improvement project that will require about 5 or 6000 hours of work with a D8 sized machine. Pushing bush and plowing in tile. I've spent my life on a farm and working with and on farm machinery, but something like this is out of my wheelhouse. Would like to keep costs down as much as possible hence why Im looking into owning the machine vs hiring it out, but still need a reliable machine given the amount of work to do. I'm leaning towards something like a D8R. What would maintenance costs average on a 20,000+ houred unit that would bought with a chassis and engine overhaul? I get that that's a heck of a question with a ton of variables. Just trying to get in the ball park assuming I dont get a lemon; I can figure fuel, oil and manpower, but what number would you put on repairs?
Local guys run smaller units and claim they just work, but they also don't have 20k hours. Most big ones I see are all over that unless you get fairly new.

 

[Tyler d4c]

If your willing to work on it imo it's nothing time can't handle and parts of corse. Buy to find one that will go 5 or 6000 with out a issue is probably not going to happen. This is going to be a interesting thread.

 

[epirbalex]

Those hours will need a set and a half of tracks for a Caterpillar high track . That is a big job and well worth getting a low hour machine , at the end there would be an asset of value to sell . Consider what is around to recover a machine if its rolled or badly stuck . I did the cost of recovery calculation of my dozer and with the transport and 3 days work , two walking and one recovering , it came close to a fifth of another dozer . Insurance company would recover a roll over once or twice but ..... Matching your dozer size to what is close by should be assessed. Who is to repair and supply parts and are they reliable ? that should determine what brand of machine you purchase .

 

[CM1995]

Welcome to the Forums SF! Glad to have you!

20K hours is a lot of hours and then not a lot of hours for a D8R depending on how it was operated and serviced along those 20K hours. Doing your homework up front, hiring a mechanic and oil analysis will go a long way in weeding out the junk and money well spent IMO.

Couple of questions:

Timeframe?
What type of ground conditions?
Cat certified rebuild on engine and UC?
What other kind of support equipment do you have?

 

[epirbalex]

https://www.machinerytrader.com/listing/for-sale/214211913/2012-caterpillar-d8t-wh-crawler-dozers

Looks like you are in luck , not the model you want but close enough . I don't know if this one is the same model as the two that were on a job site in NZ , one acting as a spare for the other while it was not possible to get a days work out of either , featured in a thread here couple of years or so ago .

 

[CM1995]

https://www.machinerytrader.com/listing/for-sale/214211913/2012-caterpillar-d8t-wh-crawler-dozers

Looks like you are in luck , not the model you want but close enough . I don't know if this one is the same model as the two that were on a job site in NZ , one acting as a spare for the other while it was not possible to get a days work out of either , featured in a thread here couple of years or so ago .

That's an old landfill machine, I would suggest not.

 

[skyking1]

" I've spent my life on a farm and working with and on farm machinery"
I am guessing not much on a big dozer doing major earthworks. How did you arrive at your time estimate?

 

[Sparkiefarmer]

Welcome to the Forums SF! Glad to have you!

20K hours is a lot of hours and then not a lot of hours for a D8R depending on how it was operated and serviced along those 20K hours. Doing your homework up front, hiring a mechanic and oil analysis will go a long way in weeding out the junk and money well spent IMO.

Couple of questions:

Timeframe? Those hours would be put on by a full time operator
What type of ground conditions? Pulling in tile when field conditions suit, pushing bush later in the fall and through as much of the winter as possible. Operating on a silt clay type of soil in flat country.
Cat certified rebuild on engine and UC? Yes, I'm seeing several for sale advertised that way.
What other kind of support equipment do you have?

330c Deere excavator, possibility of a cheap old dozer about d7 size. Then two 450hp ag tractors if they count haha.

 

[Sparkiefarmer]

" I've spent my life on a farm and working with and on farm machinery"
I am guessing not much on a big dozer doing major earthworks. How did you arrive at your time estimate?

Thats the high end of the machine time 2 companies ball parked it would take for them with 2 d7 sized machines working in separate locations.

 

[skyking1]

you need to pad it for experience's sake too.

 

[Acoals]

6000 hours .... That's like three years. How do you find a job like that that can get dragged out for three years?

 

[Queenslander]

Tell us a bit about the job Sparkiefarmer.
What size bush are you clearing and what proportion of the entire project does it entail?
There could be options to do that part of the job more efficiently than pushing with a D8.

 

[Sparkiefarmer]

Tell us a bit about the job Sparkiefarmer.
What size bush are you clearing and what proportion of the entire project does it entail?
There could be options to do that part of the job more efficiently than pushing with a D8.

Bush is mostly poplars, some willows and soft maples with well worn cow trails all through it. Northern Manitoba, turning wild pasture into crop land. Could be up to 4000 acres to clear. Bush isnt dense at all, be ontario standards its very light, no deep rooted trees, nothing bigger than 14" diameter. Locals all just start pushing it in to windrows.

 

[Sparkiefarmer]

6000 hours .... That's like three years. How do you find a job like that that can get dragged out for three years?

I'm looking at buying this land and cropping it. Hiring it done all at once would be great but guy are ball parking $3,000,000 for the job; Im thinking I can cut that cost by more than half if I do it in house so to speak. Am considering hiring several operators and keeping the machine moving as many hours a week as possible.

 

[Sparkiefarmer]

you need to pad it for experience's sake too.

I was kinda hoping me in a size larger machine than them would make up for the inexperience; and; I'm a quick study on machinery operation as a rule. Just have to try and hire a guy with some experience will be the big challenge.

 

[John C.]

Most here are interested in the operation. I'm interested in the machine itself. I haven't seen where anyone is rebuilding D8R dozers for a few years. When you are talking about engine and drive train rebuilds back five to ten years ago, most were done in the twelve to eighteen thousand hour range. That would mean the subject machine could be worn out all over again. The quality of the rebuild is also a question to ask. Were components taken apart and received what ever showed wear or were bearings and seals the only things replaced? Were wiring harnesses and electrical components just reused? Did the pivot shafts get pulled and checked for straight? Was the frame stripped and checked for cracks. How about the equalizer bar and hard nose joints?

When I look at possible costs, I try to get prices on exchange components. Engines, transmissions and final drives should be available or at the very least have a price. Once you have that you can get some ball park figures on cost to remove and re-install the components. Add up all those projections and then divide that by the projected amount of time to complete your project and now you have a place to start. As far as someone giving you a ball park number that you can use, it probably won't happen. The people that know the answer, tend to keep that info to themselves.

 

[chidog]

Hope fuel doesn't go higher. Unless I messed up that would be (guessing a bit too) about $360,000 for fuel at 6 a gallon for an old D8H. Not sure what the newer D8's burn. Just don't forget to factor in that cost.
20K hours on a machine is a lot, like low mile cars, look for one with lower hours.
With dozers the undercarriage is very important, and can cost as much or more than fixing the engine.
With the operating, with little experience, the job will last longer and the fuel cost goes with it.
You will still need to do maintenance, oil changes etc. and if the outfit that did any rebuilding messed up, like most do, yes even the dealers do, then you will be out for those fixes too. Unless you have a well equipped shop truck and proper tools then you have to hire that out. To work on heavy machines you sometimes need another heavy machine to help lift or move stuff.
What is going to happen with all the clearing debris? It will be better to clear with a heavy rake than a straight blade. You could even sell some of the wood to help recover some costs. If there are a lot of wet areas that will be a problem, especially with a heavy dozer. I would always recommend a ripper on what ever you get.

 

[.RC.]

If you are wanting to turn a large swathe of vegetated land into cropping land it might be wise to look at the methods Australian's used to turn their forests into cropping land. Since the advent of the internet I have seen the methods used in north america and I wonder how on earth they can afford it.

Without seeing what you have essentially what I would be using is two dozers and a chain to start with, then a wide stickrake to rake up all the vegetation into windrows ready for burning.

 

[Queenslander]

I agree RC, just been doing some ballpark figures myself using two D7s chaining and raking as you described.
With the tractors at $250/hr each, Iam getting $500,000 for the clearing portion.

 

[epirbalex]

Bush is mostly poplars, some willows and soft maples with well worn cow trails all through it. Northern Manitoba, turning wild pasture into crop land. Could be up to 4000 acres to clear. Bush isnt dense at all, be ontario standards its very light, no deep rooted trees, nothing bigger than 14" diameter. Locals all just start pushing it in to windrows.

About a acre an hour is a bit low . I'm doing much the same on steep ground . Blade on area's where the dozer can work and a roller on the steeper stuff . Scraping off the trees needs a solid blade rather than a rake . Mine is going into pasture and having some small material left lying on the bladed areas is not a problem . Not what would be suitable for cropping , that would need a rake to clear it up enough for that . I find its the first trees in a push that cause the problem as their branches head for all the vital points on the dozer after that the trees are knocked over by the trees you have against the blade . I've found I can get about a 100 meters before it too much material to move and once left its hard to get a row moving again . On the flat you have reversing away from a row won't be a problem unless its wet . It is a two dozer job , not important to have both working but one for recovery .