1. Thank you for visiting HeavyEquipmentForums.com! Our objective is to provide industry professionals a place to gather to exchange questions, answers and ideas. We welcome you to register using the "Register" icon at the top of the page. We'd appreciate any help you can offer in spreading the word of our new site. The more members that join, the bigger resource for all to enjoy. Thank you!
  2. ALL NEW MEMBERS READ THIS FIRST!! Thank you for joining Heavy Equipment Forums! If you are new to forums we communicate with "Threads", please search our threads to see if your topic may have already been answered and if not then click "Post New Thread" in the appropriate forum. This will allow all of our members to see your question and give you the best chance to be answered. After you've made a number of posts you will graduate to Full Member status where you'll see a few more privileges. Following these guidelines will help make this the best resource for heavy equipment on the net. Thanks for joining us and I hope you enjoy your stay!!

Large cable loading shovels - Questions

Discussion in 'Excavators' started by Alaska Sunrise, Nov 15, 2009.

  1. alco

    alco Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2006
    Messages:
    1,278
    Location:
    here
    A little from column A, a little from column B. They do much better if they are run in easy digging, but put them into tough to dig material, and they literally fall apart before your eyes. Not to mention how rough they are....shaking, shuddering, and bucking around wildly. They should put them in the top cut bench and leave them there. The material is easy to dig, and the floor is soft enough to settle down the bucking motion a fair bit.

    Love the RH120 video, man I hate chasing a low face like that and loading 930Es. Thanks for posting it...in fact, post more!
     
  2. Ross

    Ross Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2007
    Messages:
    357
    Location:
    In the Rockies
    Ah right .. So what Shovel (pound for pound) is Best for the hard stuff up at the sands?

    Aye .. RH120 was having some bother with that stuff ..

    I have more on the Laptop yet to be uploaded .. See if I can load a few more up :cool:
     
  3. HRKTechnik

    HRKTechnik New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2010
    Messages:
    2
    Location:
    Perth, WA, Australia
    A lot of interesting experience to learn from in this thread, unfortunately discontinued. Anyone still looking in here? I could really use some first hand information on shovels and how they operate in a mine, as I am compiling a simulation of Truck & Shovel operation.
     
  4. Chris5500

    Chris5500 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2009
    Messages:
    217
    Occupation:
    Plant Mechanic
    Location:
    Australia
    What type of shovel; hydraulic or electric rope? Just out of curiosity what is the purpose of the simulation?
     
  5. HRKTechnik

    HRKTechnik New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2010
    Messages:
    2
    Location:
    Perth, WA, Australia
    It's about comparing several discontinuous mining systems, based on loading equipment as hydraulic or rope shovel, or front end loader.
    I have to describe the operation of each part of the system, and their interaction. As I don't have any practice with such equipment, I'm short of information I can't retrieve from manufacturer's docs.
    Example: a shovel digs until no sufficient material is in its reach, so it has to move forward using its crawlers. How many meters does it move towards the face to start digging the next section or "slice" of the block, i.e. how thick is that "slice" a shovel can dig betweeen two moves? How long does that moving forward take? I could thus calculate how many of such steps I have to make for a given block length.
    Other questions would be:
    - what is a common block width and length, bench height?
    - how often is dual side loading possible?
    - what times do you have on a shovel through which it isn't digging, although technically it could (e.g. because you eat, drink or take a p..., make a transfer at start and end of shift etc.)?
    - how frequent is blasting, how much time each time that the shovel can't dig?
    - what is the extension of a section to be blasted?

    Only a small part of the open questions - it's quite a project as you see.
    Cheers!
     
  6. alco

    alco Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2006
    Messages:
    1,278
    Location:
    here
    Sorry, I must have missed this post.

    In really hard digging, the RH400s blow everything else away with the ability to vary the digging angles and actually pry the material out of the bank. Other hydraulics are very good at this as well, but the 400 has the most power for hard material.

    In average to moderately hard digging, the P&H 4100s really seem to excel.

    In overburden/topcut where the digging is fairly easy, the BI 495s seem to do quite well. The main issue with them is how poorly they handle hard digging. They have a tendency to shake themselves to death when the going gets tough, but are pretty quick and powerful when they aren't struggling against hard material.

    The 4100C BOSS we have is a DC drive machine, and it is one of the most impressive machines I have seen yet. I do wonder, however, what the new 4100C BOSS AC machine we have coming this year will prove to be like.


    HRKTechnik,

    There could be many answers to the questions you pose. These answers will depend on the type of material the shovel is digging, the type of shovel, the way the shovel is spec'd out, the model of shovel and so on.

    I'll try to answer what I can of the questions, but please remember, there are no hard and fast rules that dictate every situation.

    The reach the shovel has will generally determine the amount of material it removes before it makes a move further into the cut. This however can be influenced by whether the material is blasted or not. With blasted material, it is more likely to slough down and bring the toe in closer to the shovel while keeping the crest of the face further away from the point sheaves and boom. With unblasted material, the face tends to stand in a more vertical manner, which means the machine cannot move forward as far because the crest of the face will be in too close to work if it does. Since machines can be spec'd out with different boom and stick lengths, and different models have different reaches, it's not really possible to determine an actual number without using a specific prototype spec to work from. In our operations, we have material that sloughs, material that stands vertical or actually undercuts, and in very, very rare circumstances, material that gets blasted. I've seen faces where the point sheaves are (we'll say almost) brushing the top of the face and the bucket cannot even reach the face to get another bucket. I know that should never happen, but sometimes it does.

    That would depend on the type of shovel mostly, but would still be fairly easy to give a rough number. A hydraulic shovel will take only a couple of seconds to move forward since they can simply walk forward as needed, when needed. We could estimate a hydraulic shovel would take 3 to 5 seconds to move forward. It may take less, but that would be a rough number. Now, a cable machine takes far more time. Before they can move, they have to set their brakes, transfer from dig to propel, release brakes, then move forward. Once they have moved the distance they want, they have to set their brakes, transfer from propel to dig, and them release their brakes again. Depending on the make and model of shovel, this can take anywhere from probably 20 to 30 seconds.

     
  7. Ross

    Ross Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2007
    Messages:
    357
    Location:
    In the Rockies
    Thanks for the reply .... Sure would be a nice machine that BOSS C ... if they are anything like the XPC then they will set new records for loading out .. (In the softer stuff)

    Things must be picking up if they are buying some new tackle of that magnitude ..
     
  8. Chris5500

    Chris5500 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2009
    Messages:
    217
    Occupation:
    Plant Mechanic
    Location:
    Australia
    Those P&H illustrations are about as realistic as this :thumbdown :crazy
     

    Attached Files:

    • bs.jpg
      bs.jpg
      File size:
      36.9 KB
      Views:
      1,468
  9. Mass-X

    Mass-X Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2006
    Messages:
    167
    Location:
    CA
    Anyone can be a quarterback from the sidelines. Add to the discussion by explaining what is unrealistic about the diagrams.
     
  10. EGS

    EGS Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2009
    Messages:
    577
    Occupation:
    Local 139 operator
    Location:
    Southern Wisconsin
    I liked the post from Mass-X with the P&H illustrations. Very good information.
     
  11. JDOFMEMI

    JDOFMEMI Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2007
    Messages:
    3,074
    Location:
    SoCal
    Me too.
    You can tell they are from P&H, and they show their cable machine in the most favorable situations, without addressing the strengths of the hydraulic, but that is sales. They are completely valid in what they are showing, as long as you understand it is only one side of the story.
     
  12. Guy

    Guy New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2010
    Messages:
    2
    Location:
    NY
    Hi Alco,

    I'm a new guy here and an enthusiast of modern rope shovels. I am guessing, based on what posts I have seen, that you work for Syncrude. Are you saying that we will soon be seeing some 4100c shovels in Syncrude livery? I totally missed that news, I didn't even know you had a dc 4100c there.
     
  13. kenn

    kenn New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2011
    Messages:
    1
    Location:
    mountains
    Common failures caused by Boom Jacking

    Repeated actions of doing boom jacking could break the retract cable unexpectedly?
    What others consequences would bring this bad operation?
    Thanks

     
  14. alco

    alco Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2006
    Messages:
    1,278
    Location:
    here
    Boom jacking doesn't really do much to your crowd or retract functions. The main issue boom jacking causes is a shock loading of the suspension cables for the boom. That could potentially shorten the life of the suspension cables or cause an outright failure. That being said, the most common situation with a boom jack, causes the computer on the shovel to limit the movement and slowly lower the boom to avoid any shock loading.
     
  15. realm21

    realm21 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2013
    Messages:
    7
    Location:
    Edmonton
    would you be able to help me out with something since you have access to these machines? I am doing research and I want to find out what size, length of hoist ropes these machines use? especially the size of the ferrule beckets that are put on the ends? I would really appreciate your help.
     
  16. millercross3

    millercross3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2013
    Messages:
    132
    Occupation:
    Traditional Farm/Ranching...Trucking/Construction
    Location:
    North Dakota
    That sir is one big pig. Sounds like an 'ol brontasarus groaning and moving. Just can't jiggle the bucket a little to get all the wetter material out by the teeth.
     
  17. JCZ

    JCZ New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2013
    Messages:
    2
    Location:
    Az
    realm21: Did you ever find the info you were searching for? I am very familiar with P&H Shovels and i may have what you're looking for.