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komatsu pc210 VGT turbo 6.7 cummins

Discussion in 'Excavators' started by davecampbell, Dec 5, 2021.

  1. BigWrench55

    BigWrench55 Senior Member

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    It will be easier and likely cheaper to fix it the right way. Unless you know someone who can properly delete and reprogram your ecu. Then you are just asking for more expensive problems than repairing the issue at hand.
    You never gave a full explanation of the problem. How do you know that you have low boost? Do you have any active codes? Any other symptoms or anomalies not mentioned?
    This could be something as simple as cleaning the venturi tube of the egr.
     
  2. davecampbell

    davecampbell Senior Member

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    Low boost was determined by look at boost pressures on the monitor. It seems to be correct because machine has lost some power too. I think Ive found someone to flash the ecm for me, Hope he knows what he is doing! Its important for my wokr to not have the dpf get hot on regen. I am doing clearing work for ranchers and so im in a lot of leaves when working. Ill burn this machine down if I have 1300 degree exhaust. It doesn't have a current active code.
     
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  3. BigWrench55

    BigWrench55 Senior Member

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    Clogged air filter can cause low boost. Leaks in the charge air piping. And the vgt acting up. These turbos pretty reliable. The only thing I seen that would mess with the operation of the vgt without causing a code. Is a Clogged egr differential pressure sensor ports. What I see happen is that exhaust gas will get trapped and make the sensor read inaccurately. This will have the ecu change the position of the vgt to undesirable position. I strongly discourage the deleting of emissions. Not because I am some sort of save a tree and hugs for you and me kind of person. And I could give a crap about government regulations. My concern is that if the person doesn't know what he's doing. Then he can ruin your engine. There's a lot more to it than block off plates. This is a science to do proper deletes. And I can only think of a few mechanics of the many I know that would understand the idiosyncrasies of something like this. You are only getting those high temperatures at the exhaust tip. The heat desipates pretty rapidly as distance from the exhaust outlet. And if this is a teir4 final machine then it does it passively at lower temperatures. The only time that you get to those higher temperatures is during parked and service regeneration. I have been doing this for a long time and I have only seen one proper delete. The rest were shadetree hackery. It works,but when they fail. The hacker doesn't know how to fix it. And then the dealer gets involved and they won't touch it unless you go back factory emissions.
     
  4. funwithfuel

    funwithfuel Senior Member

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    So you're asking for help to delete. A delete is not gonna help your performance issue. Sorry but I'm out
     
  5. LACHAU

    LACHAU Senior Member

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    You're right Mr.Paul,
    The point is that it takes an expert who is very knowledgeable in how to program the engine ECU for industrial engines.
    We reprogrammed the PC350-10 ECU to remove the DPF handling.
    We're currently working on reprogramming to remove the handling for VGT and EGR, but we're not done yet!:p:D:rolleyes::p

    We have just had to replace the VGT of PC350-10 with a new one, it's very expensive!!!

    000.jpg
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    Last edited: Dec 8, 2021
  6. John C.

    John C. Senior Member

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    Low boost causes a lack of speed not a lack of power. Power is a function of hydraulic pressure and flow settings on the pump. You haven’t stated if you did any cycle times. You can’t measure boost without fully loading the engine.
     
  7. davecampbell

    davecampbell Senior Member

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    looks like you have the reprogramming that I want
     
  8. davecampbell

    davecampbell Senior Member

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    I'll try cleaning out the EGR and see if that changes anything. Thanks
     
  9. davecampbell

    davecampbell Senior Member

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    I believe that is what I'm using to monitor boost, vgt, egr, etc
    It seems to work pretty good when it's cold but deteriorates as it warms up. I thought I would take data snips and show the boost was falling off at certain vgt or egr positions but that isn't how it came out. 20211213_081134.jpg 20211213_102029.jpg
     
  10. LACHAU

    LACHAU Senior Member

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    Based on the pictures you have attached; I assume your VGT is in good working order!!
    According to the standard table recommended by Komatsu, the minimum pressure is 120 kPa (17.4 psi), while your engine pressure reaches 164 kPa (23.9 psi).

    PC210-10 BOOST Pressure value.png
     
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  11. fastline

    fastline Senior Member

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    Man, wouldn't that be nice to get all that data at your fingertips in a CAT!!! You might actually be able to diagnose and fix something in the field.
     
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  12. John C.

    John C. Senior Member

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    Throttle position at 76.4% and you have 23.929 PSI?
     
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  13. davecampbell

    davecampbell Senior Member

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    Komatsu technical support told me that I had to subtract ambient pressure from the monitor figure to get true boost. Maybe he was wrong?
     
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  14. LACHAU

    LACHAU Senior Member

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    I don't think so, man.
    we only have to subtract the ambient air pressure when the value in the standard table is the gauge pressure value, and the value on the screen is the absolute pressure value.
    We can do a thorough check with a turbocharger pressure external gauge which we can buy easily for a very cheap price.
    Komatsu's manual also instructs us in the same way (Please see attached file).

    We also can read here about 02 types of pressure values:
    https://blog.wika.com/knowhow/difference-between-gauge-pressure-and-absolute-pressure-measurement/

    Very cheap turbo boost pressure gauge:
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Universal-Turbo-Pressure-Smoked-Indicator/dp/B071SD2J6Q

     

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    Last edited: Dec 15, 2021
  15. Vetech63

    Vetech63 Senior Member

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    Does anyone else get all giddy and excited when LACHAU posts?..........or is it just me!?;):D
     
  16. LACHAU

    LACHAU Senior Member

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    :D:):D:)
     
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  17. LACHAU

    LACHAU Senior Member

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    for further clarification:
    I have noticed that the technical documentation always uses gauge pressure values throughout all sections of the document.
    Technician Komatsu's argument is
    "ABSOLUTELY" absurd.:)
     
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  18. fastline

    fastline Senior Member

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    An easy way to determine absolute vs relative pressure is look at the boost pressure when not running. Obviously should read 0 if relative. As well, it might be a good idea to ensure the boost sensor is working right. An engine should not be throwing fuel at the party until it sees enough air (boost). In a pinch, I have just rigged a hand air pump in a little tube to throw air pressure at the sensor while coupled in the harness and can be read when not running in a diagnostic screen. Once you can confirm it works right, you can have more assurance in the value you see. So many people buy whatever is on an LCD screen, hook, line, and sinker, and not qualify the sensors. They can lie to you.

    Just remember to look at all available data. vane position would be pretty important to me in this one but if that is not available, I might be looking at the hydro pressure to it.
     
  19. davecampbell

    davecampbell Senior Member

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    So I got a chance to play with a machine like mine. Cold boost pressure and turbo speeds are on par. I just have to figure out why mine looses boost pressure when it warms up. Is it possible to have a soot restriction in intake as a result of EGR? Excuse me if that is a dumb question bit I don't fully understand egr operations. My only experience with them is throwing them off of a couple of 6.0 Ford superduty pickups. 20211223_151109.jpg
     
  20. LACHAU

    LACHAU Senior Member

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    I suggest you check more parameters like the table below when the engine is cold and when the engine is hot.
    ScreenShot_20211224063956.png