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Komatsu Hybrid v. the Traditional Version

EquipmentEditor

Active Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2007
Messages
41
Location
chicago
We did a Field Test pitting Komatsu's Hybrid against its traditional counterpart. We were able to verify the fuel efficiency claims, and we discovered productivity improvements, too.
The question remains: Is it worth the premium price Komatsu is putting on the Hybrid?
 

cjplanthire

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2011
Messages
121
Location
Eire
Occupation
Plant contractor
It shouldnt affect the retail price of the machine, by putting amodern day engine in it, we dont get extra money on hourly rates for a komatsu 210_7 or 210_8 or a dash 9 with a hybrid, a 20 tonner is a twenty tonner same ratedoesnt matter about an ecofriendly lump under the bonnet,
Im using 210 as an example, in general hybrid engines shouldnt affect the cost of running or buying anymachine
 

John C.

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2007
Messages
12,865
Location
Northwest
Occupation
Machinery & Equipment Appraiser
I find the concepts of the hybrid machine interesting and hopefully the higher price will pencil out in life cycle costs. What wasn't mentioned is the cost of replacement of the electrical and electronic components. Komatsu has always run a wet flywheel case and is particularly known for leaking rear main seals on the engines and input drive shaft seals on the pumps. What is the potential for damage to the motor/generator set from potential oil leakage? How will all this relate to the poor resale performance usually seen in Komatsu used equipment?

I am wondering about the fuel readings done from the monitor panel. Any objective testing requires measured amounts before hand to establish the accuracy of the onboard diagnostics. I have found that while handy in setting up machines in a hurry, the onboard diagnostics can be as much as fifteen percent either way of actual gauged readings. Even back when I worked for the dealer they wouldn't recommend setting pressures and flows from the monitor.

A large concern from anyone considering an electric hybrid is safety. Two motor/generator sets, a large rectifier, what must be a large capacitor and the capability to generate very high DC voltage will most certainly have the capability to produce an awe inspiring light show should something fail in the wrong place at the wrong time. The capacitor has the further issue of storing electrical potential with the machine shut down. I can imagine coming to work on Monday and finding an electrocuted copper thief laying on top of the machine. While that would be quite satisfying in some cases, what would be the ramifications of it being a young kid who was just curious about big machines?

Komatsu has always produced very capable machines that performed with any other manufacturer in the business. Perhaps a follow up article delving deeper into some of these other concerns will provide a better picture of how this new technology will provide a competitive advantage to the purchaser.
 

EquipmentEditor

Active Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2007
Messages
41
Location
chicago
Fuel measurements

John,
We typically do measure the fuel in these tests.
Komatsu suggested we use the monitors, though, and since each machine had the same telematics, we presume that the measurements are comparable.
Some OEs have said that the voltages are low and that technicians are protected. I don't know if that covers copper thieves, but you can read more here:
http://www.aemp.org/ezines/2010_em_summer/index.html#/12/
Thanks for the insights.
 

John C.

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2007
Messages
12,865
Location
Northwest
Occupation
Machinery & Equipment Appraiser
Equipment Editor,
Thanks for the further link. I found that article also very interesting but really all I got from it was some marketing people trying to hawk their product without revealing any specifics.

I've worked on LeTourneau scrapers in the past where I was told they were completely safe. 380 volts was supposed to be low voltage. Trust me, it's not low enough to be safe. 1,000 volts DC I believe is medium voltage in the electrical power industry. Hopefully there is some kind of ground fault system like in your house that will protect people.

Please keep posting interesting articles.
 

coalrulz

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
232
Location
Western US
Occupation
Good Question
The Hybrid Komatsu excavator HB215LC-8 uses some very interesting technology. First the swing is completely electric, no hydraulic swing motor. When operator lets off of swing activation lever the momentum built up, that is trying to keep house turning, is captured and stored in capacitor using electric dynamic braking. As the operator goes to swing again the energy stored in capacitor is released to swing motor. So the more the swing function is used the lower the fuel bill. The safety is built into machine, first capicitors self discharge over time. Second once key is turned off several sets of contacts are opened in capacitor assembly that keep connections and cables isolated from capacitors stored energy. 20 to 40 percent fuel savings have been documented in truck loading applications. The warranty on Hybrid components is 7 yrs or 5000 hrs. I have ran this machine and swing is a little different from hydraulic swing machine, but not much.
 

dingo

Active Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2010
Messages
43
Location
nth qld, australia
Occupation
diesel fitter
Hi Jon,
I am led to believe that there is a fail safe(if there is such a thing) built into the capacitor where if a plug or wire even becomes loose and starts drawing extra current the capacitor shuts down immediately. As for working on it in australia we will need either to get restricted HV licence or get a sparky to repair HV circuits. Which just quietly is fine by me, im not smart enough to play with electricity. There is a tool you plug into the capacitor to discharge the voltage but it is expensive. I am guessing we will see some serious injuries soon enough especially when some backyard cowboy gets his hands on a hybrid machine. It will be like giving a machine gun to a monkey.
 
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