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Komatsu D65e-6 overheat

Discussion in 'Dozers' started by jasonharville, May 9, 2017.

  1. DMiller

    DMiller Senior Member

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    I have to pull the radiator on my Allis, it has run hot since the week I bought it and suspicion is the core is limed over from years of service on well water or pond water. I have a spare from a donor tractor I had cleaned, uncertain if the spare will last very long so am seriously thinking of these guidelines for attempting cleanout as the closest heavy radiator shop is now 150 miles away.
     
  2. jasonharville

    jasonharville Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure if they are factory or not but I was at least glad to see there was some kind of fuel filtration. The two smaller ones on the left are the fuel filters and the large one is engine oil. There are actually two different oil filters on this thing as it also has the same sized filter mounted on the side of the engine. I was hoping it might be some sort of supplemental filtration for the TC and was causing my flow problems, but no such luck.

    I still have not done much overheat troubleshooting with the machine cutting off too frequently to overheat the TC. I've been working my way from the tank to the PT pump looking for restrictions or possible air leaks. The throttle shaft had a leak as did a loose elbow fitting for one of the fuel lines. I replaced seals and tightened fittings thinking it must be the cause of the problem, but it went right back to its shutoff routine during testing. I learned from cleaning inlets, replacing fuel filters, etc that air being introduced into the lines does not seem to cause an abrupt stop like I am experiencing during operation. Its more of a slow speed decrease as the air is introduced. So next on the list is the electronic fuel shutoff solenoid as it is about the only thing I can think would cause it to shut down just like the key has been turned off. Definitely also seems to be tied to engine temp increase as it rarely happens the first 30 minutes of operation. I'm hoping I have a heat related short in the solenoid circuit.

    For the overheat problem, I have been considering buying a hydraulic flow meter to try to pinpoint where I'm losing fluid volume after the fluid heats up. Looks like I can get one for around $200 and it would be a nice tool to have around. I'm going to have to figure out the feasibility of getting it hooked up though. The trans piping isn't terribly forgiving.
     
  3. Delmer

    Delmer Senior Member

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    Coils fail when hot fairly commonly. Check the ohms/continuity of the fuel shutoff coil when cold, then again after it shuts off, and again once it cools.
     
  4. ATCme

    ATCme Well-Known Member

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    My shut down solenoid failed the day i bought my machine. Mine is a 220NH don't know if it's the same as the 855 you have, but we noticed one of my injectors leaked inside the head when we rebuilt them. The copper seal washer used on the side of the injector was over tightened and split. Never had any overheating issues engine wise.

    I'm interested in what you find out on the T/C over heating. Have been tempted to replace my pumps and T/C to but if it's just a clogged heat ex changer then it's just time not money to fix.
     
  5. DMiller

    DMiller Senior Member

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    Any luck yet?
     
  6. jasonharville

    jasonharville Well-Known Member

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    Last night I checked resistance on the shutoff coil. I had a something like 34 ohms of resistance while working. As soon as the engine died I checked again and had an open circuit. Went through that process 2 times to be sure. So my shutoff coil appears to be faulty. I also realized that there is a thumb screw that is for adjusting/overriding that shut off valve. I adjusted it to fully open and ran the dozer for 30 more minutes without interruption. At least I have a workaround until the new part arrives.

    The dozer did overheat again right around the hour mark but it was getting too dark to continue investigations. I'm seriously considering yanking the valve assembly off of the transmission to rule out any major leaks. I still have fluid leaking from the shift lever so that needs to be addressed anyway. It may be sunday afternoon before I start that project as I need to get as many hours logged as possible this weekend. I'm trying to clear 3 acres of stumps/cut-over and its going pretty slow at 2 hours per day of dozer run time. ;-)
     
  7. jasonharville

    jasonharville Well-Known Member

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    Here is a decent view of the clearing project and a nice storm rolling in. PANO_20170529_191231.jpg
     
  8. jasonharville

    jasonharville Well-Known Member

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    I've been looking over parts diagrams and the disassembly pictures from the manual. There are sleeves with orings that bridge the gap between the valve cover and the valves (see yellow highlight in picture). This is the main inlet for oil coming from the pump/filter and the main outlet for oil that makes it past the trans headed to the TC. I have already had to replace the two external o-rings between the pipe flanges and the cover due to leaks. It stands to reason that the o-rings on those sleeves are also due for replacement and could possibly be leaking a fair amount of oil. I think/hope I can access these without fully removing the valve cover. I had a similar sleeve connector fail on my Massey 255 hydraulics last year.
    sleeve.JPG
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2017
  9. DMiller

    DMiller Senior Member

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    Is as on the old cummins that is a manual bypass by turning the knurled knob basically full in

    If you have a murphy style system this bypasses it while only way to shut off is to screw it back out
     
  10. John C.

    John C. Senior Member

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    Don't use the compression release to shut of the engine. Make sure you turn that screw all the way out to shut off the engine. If the screw stays in one of the injectors will leak by and fill the crankcase full of fuel. That might have happened to me once:)
     
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  11. jasonharville

    jasonharville Well-Known Member

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    Yep. When I killed the key it stayed at idle. Had to back the knob out all the wY to shut it down.
     
  12. jasonharville

    jasonharville Well-Known Member

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    It looks like the sleeve o-rings had been replaced with a higher quality material at some point. They were still pliable and sealing quite well. I didn't do any additional investigations due to getting the dozer stuck in the mud and wasting the better part of the weekend to dig it out. Will post some pictures/details of that fiasco soon. Here's a picture of the sleeves after removal. It was slightly more work than I envisioned b/c one of the pipes is not flexible and connected to the bottom of the filter housing in a way that is near impossible to reach. I ended up removing 2 of the 3 bolts holding the filter housing which allowed me to rotate the whole assembly enough to get the sleeve and mounting plate removed.

    IMG_20170603_075344.jpg
     
  13. jasonharville

    jasonharville Well-Known Member

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    After I had put the dozer back together from checking those sleeve seals I decided to try to run it for the usual 45 minutes. About 30 minutes in, I was pushing a few loose stumps toward the pile and there was a low section that I had navigated before. I figured I could make it across again, but I think the root rake grabbed another stump and before I realized it the front as in the hole that the stump left. I guess the root network was the only thing keeping me afloat b/c in a instant I was in trouble. I thought I could back out but all that did was slip the tracks and dig in more. I tried forward/reverse and was sitting on the belly pan before I knew it. I shut it down and hopped off to assess the situation. There was a stump directly in front of the left track and the track was already low enough that it was spinning against the stump. Fortunately the same stump was giving me a solid place to drop the blade and lift the front of the tractor out of the mud. So at 10 a.m. Saturday morning I was sweating my @ss off cutting logs to put under the front of the tracks. Over the span of about 2 hours I must've put 3 tree's worth of timber under that thing. Every time I let the front back down it would smash them down as if they weren't even there. Of course, I would then try to inch forward/reverse to see if it helped with traction. All the while I'm getting deeper with every failed attempt. I decided to go home for lunch and rethink my options. I did a few searches online and found several threads on this forum about tricks to get out of the mud. The idea of chaining a log to the tracks seemed to have a pretty high success rate so I set out to try that approach on Sunday morning. I opted to put the log on the rear of the dozer and made a poor decision to fasten by wrapping a 10k pound rated ratchet strap around it and the track pad several times on each side. After over an hour of effort I gave it a shot. I noticed some initial movement but then the tracks seemed to stall as if I wasn't generating enough torque for the job. Then all at once the tracks started spinning. Turns out the straps didn't hold up and the effort was wasted. So I figured my only option was to use the higher torque forward gear and hope like hell that it could jump over the stump that was in the way. Chaining the new log to the tracks was a chore as the chain was tight fit between the tracks. I also stuffed a few more logs under the tracks and laid a few where I was headed for good measure. I found myself standing there wondering if there was anything else I could do to prepare, knowing that if this attempt didn't work I would probably have to admit defeat and pay someone to come pull me out. It was a nervous few minutes! Finally I got the courage to crank it up and give it a shot. To my surprise, it climbed out of the hole with ease. Here are some pics at various stages of the process. It doesn't look terrible in the pictures because I had the front lifted with the blade. At its worst, the top of the tracks were at ground level.
    IMG_20170603_095257.jpg IMG_20170603_095357.jpg IMG_20170604_151750.jpg
     

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  14. DMiller

    DMiller Senior Member

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    Always amazed me how fast a machine of these types can dig a hole with its own shoes, how fast they will sink down and how stuck we can stick them in a very short order! Worst I saw was a D9 cable unit dragging a pan hit soft wet sand boil, was in up to the top of track in a heartbeat, took three other 9's to dislodge it as it developed a suction seal to the muddy mess.
     
  15. jughead

    jughead Senior Member

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    not an operator by any means but have been in those situations 3 times. only thing that saved this old man was i removed the spring that holds the throttle in place for a health reason on both loaders when i felt it start to sink i turned throttle loose and it stopped instantly. then got off and took appropriate measures to get it out.
     
  16. jasonharville

    jasonharville Well-Known Member

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    I was planning to build a pond in this area anyway, but this isn't how I envisioned digging the hole. :p I'm very fortunate to have gotten it out on Sunday. We've had 2-3 inches of rain since Sunday night.
     
  17. DMiller

    DMiller Senior Member

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    Well you have a good start hole!
     
  18. jasonharville

    jasonharville Well-Known Member

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    I got the dozer stuck again this weekend. Fortanately, after last weekend I'm a dozer unstucking expert. :p It only took about an hour of effort this time. I spent most of the rest of the weekend digging a ditch along the bottom of the area I am working in hopes that it will help dry it enough to be workable with the dozer.

    Lastnight, I started the process of removing the trans valve assembly make sure everything is functional there. I was making good progress until I got to the front bolts of the seat frame. Normally they would be readily accessible from the outside of the dozer, but in my case there is huge L brace of 3/4" steel that provides support for the roll cage. The bolt is accessible behind the corner of the brace but only just barely. So to remove two 21 mm bolts I am likely going to have to remove sixteen 30 mm bolts and manage a very heavy piece of iron. SIGH. The other possibility, which I am debating, would be to dremel the tack welds off of the nut on the inside. Here's a pic showing where the bolt is located:

    bolt_access.jpg
     
  19. southernman13

    southernman13 Senior Member

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    I haven't read the whole thread but have u checked the water temp with another source or gauge. I've got a D31P-21 that I thought was overheating. Can't tell you how any times I stopped and waited to cool off. I replaced the thermostat once then took it out. Finally figured out it wasn't overheating at all. It was a bad sending unit and or gauge. It was an electric sending unit. I replaced it with a manual temp gauge that don't lie. It runs cools as a cuke. Barely ever goes to 190. I almost pulled the radiator out t and had it cleaned. Man am I glad I didn't do that. That was 10 yesrs ago and it never even come close to overheating. Just sayin
     
  20. jasonharville

    jasonharville Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately I have confirmed overheating with a new converter temp gauge and with IR readings at various points. Its strictly the TC and Trans overheating at this point, the engine temp has been fine since cleaning the radiator. I am in the process of investigating the trans valve system based on the following observations:
    • Flow to/from the oil cooler is high when the fluid is cold but drastically decreases at operating temp.
    • Fluid levels in the trans vary significantly based on temp. After running for a few minutes with cold fluids the level is not on the dipstick. After warm up the trans fluid levels show very high....like 3 inches above the full mark.
    • I have been suspecting trans slippage. It will push heavy loads fairly well at any time but forward progress will slow without tracks slipping. The universal joint speed doesnt appear to be slowing in relation. Sporadically the dozer seems to push much better, spin tracks, etc...
    I think all of this gives good enough reason to investigate a leak in trans valves...plus I am kind of curious to take a peek at the internals. :confused: