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Koehring 405-2

GOOG

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2019
Messages
56
Location
Farmingdale, NJ
I am on the verge of purchasing a Koehring 405 and am wondering if anyone here has any experience with this crane and can offer some insight. I have a pond to clean out and will try to back that up with similar work. I have quite a bit of time in a dragline (30 years ago) and am looking forward to getting back in the saddle.

Any input will be appreciated.
Thanks - Tom
 

Tugger2

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2018
Messages
1,379
Location
British Columbia
I havent had much experience with a 405,ive heard they are good machines. A few things id look at.
Does it start up and run ok?
How does it travel. Are the tracks worn, adjusters on tumbler shaft stretched out
Does it switch from swing to travel easily [ I doubt it has independant swing and travel]. See how it steers,watch the tracks dont peel off if they are worn.
Have someone swing it back and forth tell them to be a bit rough and watch for play in the turntable rollers and in the boom foot pins.
Look at the brake linings and frictions on the drums and linings on the swingers.Are they worn thin at one end of the band or shoe ,they should be a consistant thickness all around
If you can see or feel a bare spot on the drum surfaces feel for ridges ,they should be flat or smooth.
Does it look like it has been well greased and kept up.
Check the cable, boom hoist in particular look for crushing or broken strands.
Run it your self see how the swing feels can you swing one way and stop it smoothly . Does there feel like a lot of slack between swing directions, any clunking or grinding while swinging.
Have the owner lower the boom,find out if it is live or power down. Look at the boom tip sheaves,are they worn sharp on the edges and rattling around,if so its had lots of use. Look all of boom hoist cable over again while its down all the other cable is important to,but that one causes disaster when it fails.
See if theres a drain cock on the bottom of the house,near the turntable when the machine is swung forward on the tracks,check it for water it should have oil in it.
Theres a few things to look at,im sure others will add to my list. One thing to remember is these old machines will be worn and still do lots of work. If everthing functions its probably ok.
 

John C.

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2007
Messages
12,870
Location
Northwest
Occupation
Machinery & Equipment Appraiser
Check out my avatar. It is a 405. I don't know about a Dash 2, but this one had all manual controls. These are short lever machines so there are lots of linkages with pivot points and setting up the frictions is an art form. A manual is a must to have if you haven't run one of these units before. Tugger2 has the basics down pretty good. I've never know one of these to have independent swing and travel so that is one linkage you should find out about. When everything was right they were a bear to shift. Power boom down is a real good thing to have but the linkages for the function gets frozen up real easily if you don't use it. The swing frictions take a beating and usually start slipping when they get hot, especially when very old. The vertical drive case seal is a big issue as all I've seen leaked. If you are lucky they will leak onto the ground just in front of where the engine is mounted. If not they leak into the center of the machine and eventually onto the ground. Either way it is a huge project to fix. When I last had my hands on the machine in the avatar, we just put a bucket under the machine and caught the oil and dumped it back in when we got ready to use it again.

So how about some descriptions of your potential machine. Which engine does it have, Cat or Detroit? How much boom? Is it angle iron or tubular? Does it have the fair lead already? How big a bucket? Do you have grooved laggings on the drums or smooth?
 

John C.

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2007
Messages
12,870
Location
Northwest
Occupation
Machinery & Equipment Appraiser
That's a pretty impressive marketing job. It looks like a sixty foot boom and it has power down. The ball and hook are great things to have. I see the line drums are of different widths and as I recall the ones on my dad's unit were the same. His started out with a shovel front so that might be the reason. You might ask if he has a multi-sheave hook block for the machine as well. That might explain the extra wide drum. The drag line bucket appears to be at least a half yard but it is hard to tell in the photo. A three quarter yard bucket is about all the machine will handle with a sixty foot boom installed. At about a forty degree angle you can cast to about fifty feet but you have to pull in pretty close to be able to lift a full three quarter yard bucket. The engine appears to be a 4-71 Detroit and it sounds pretty normal in the video. Ours had the Cat D318 which was plenty fast for clamshell and drag line work. I'm noting that it apparently has electric shift for the swing and travel plus the steering. I was impressed with how quickly it shifted between swing and travel in the video. .
Now for the negatives and there aren't many that I saw. The first is the track adjusters are all the way out. The inside of the pads though are not worn into much and the idlers and sprockets look pretty good. It's my guess that the pins in the pads are badly worn and just changing all the pins would tighten up the tracks. The bores for the pins in the track pads are also probably worn out as well but changing the pins would probably get you a lot of walking. The drive chains apparently are also stretched but those are easy to pull a link from. You adjust the drive chain side first and then do the fronts for the track adjustment. So now you are looking at what is left of the frictions, brakes, drums and any gear oil leaking from the center of the machine. The weight they are giving on the machine is low and might just be the base weight of the carbody and house. I seem to remember my dad's rug scaled out at around 52,000 when we loaded out between jobs. That was with the boom and clam shell still installed and the counterweights removed.
We sold our shovel in 1973 for $10,000 so I think the asking price on that unit is not out of line at all.

Good Luck!
 

GOOG

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2019
Messages
56
Location
Farmingdale, NJ
I appreciate the analysis. I noticed the track adjusters too. Changing the pins is a good idea. The seller says there is 75' of boom on her, also says that its a one yard bucket. I've been in touch with a gentleman running a fleet of 405 Koehrings (2). He highly endorses the machine, but obviously not this particular one. Told me to check swing gear case for leaking seal as you recommended too.

What strikes me on this crane is the lack of rust and major dents and scrape. This machine is a 1965 and has had two owners. The seller says the hour meter is accurate. Looking at the rest of the machine seems to support his claims, this machine has done little work and further, has been run by gentlemen.

The only complaint I have with crane is the cables supporting the boom. In the interest of set up and knock down for transport I'd much rather have a bridle and pendant lines.
 

Tugger2

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2018
Messages
1,379
Location
British Columbia
That machine looks pretty nice. I have a Bucyrus 22B that has bridle and pendants ,with a folding 50 ft. boom which makes for easy moving. Im sure it wouldnt be difficult to change it over.
 

tractormech

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2015
Messages
349
Location
florida
One thing you'll want to check for certain is the bevel gear case drums. That controls travel or swing depending on how it's engaged. check for oil leaks on the shoes. It will usually swing but won't crawl for crap and it's a big job to disassemble that bevel gear shaft to replace the seals. Make sure all the linkages are moving freely too....it makes a big difference in operation especially as that is a mechanical machine and not air. It's not new but anyone with a little common sense can baby the old girl and do a ton of work with it and not spend a fortune to start
 

GOOG

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2019
Messages
56
Location
Farmingdale, NJ
UPDATE : I flew out to Oklahoma and looked at the crane this week. I decided not to buy it. It's not that it's a bad machine, it's just not what I want. I have an older gentleman who is quite knowledgeable in cranes helping me locate a good machine. He is strongly urging me to go with a Bucyrus Erie 30B HD. I have spent a little time on a 38B but have never been on a 30. So, my question is, what is the differences between a 30B, A 30B HD and a 30B Super. He is guiding me toward the HD. I know the Super has adjustable gauge and is a 60T machine, but that's about the end of my knowledge. Can anyone shed some light on this issue, I tried to look up load charts for the three of them with no success.
 

tractormech

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2015
Messages
349
Location
florida
I'm not familiar with Bucyrus so I can't offer any advise. One thing-check availability of parts. Don't know that depending on what you are doing I would possibly look at Link Belt ...they are still around with dealer support.Something to consider. Good luck.
 
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