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Kenworth with 10 speed and a Detroit

Truck Shop

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Well the one I have has about 250,000 miles on it, It has a International Harvester reman tag on it. It came out of the 94 Kenworth tow truck the company owns. I had three
RTLO18913A transmissions around so I stuffed one in the tow truck. Only reason for changing is I just don't care for a Super 10. But I understand warranty.
Used Super 10's are not worth the price of scrap but they want a bunch for a reman. Super 10's have
odd gear ratio's and nothing is compatible with any other Eaton transmission. Odd Ball.
 

John C.

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We will see what he says when I start pitching some hard numbers. Like most people around here, he doesn't know how much the going rate is and tends to react a little different when he hears the exchange number plus the R&R. I'll keep you all informed. Thanks again.
 

Birken Vogt

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I am curious about the super 10 transmission. I have never seen one. But the range shift between 6 and 7 when moving the shifter sideways makes me think it is really a 3 speed main box with air splitter and range box? Can someone confirm or deny this? i.e. gear 3/4 is the same "hole" as gear 7/8 but with the range box in high instead of low?
 

Truck Shop

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The stuper 10 is like any other Eaton in the front section, the rear section is like a 13 speed with the standard twin counter shafts. When you move the shift lever to the right
at 5th-6th it completes it's air range shift. The pattern is the same as any ten speed it's just splitting every gear in the front section using the rear section to make the split.
It was actually a pretty tough gear box but it's like driving a 72 International Loadstar. No thanks. Turd
 

Truck Shop

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Because the there is not enough ratio in the front section for overdrive. Expensive to have overdrive two speed rear drive units. Ratio in 1st 10.2, ratio in 10th is 0.75 very wide range. A gas pot couldn't create
enough torque for higher ratios.
 
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Birken Vogt

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Thanks for the explanation. It is great to have someone who understands transmissions to bounce things off of. Most guys just ignore them, they are not thought of as cool as an engine.

Another question relating to this. I assume the ratio change of the range box in a super 10 is quite a bit narrower than a 9/13/18 speed and narrower still than a 10 speed. Since my days of 10 speeds esp. wide ratio ones I remember having to make the 5-6 shift rather slowly. Or else you would get into the next gear before the range box had a chance to drop in. When this happened I could sometimes just leave it in gear and let off the gas and it would drop in when it came synchronous on its own like a splitter.
 

crane operator

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but it's like driving a 72 International Loadstar

The first "big truck" I ever drove was a 1982 chevy with a 8.2 fuel pincher diesel. 5 +2 speed rear. So when I first drove a super 10, it was like old home week. I have a super 10 now in a international 8100 behind a M11. If you're not loaded to the gills, its not a bad setup. If I haven't driven it in a while, I can get a little lost in the gears when making big multiple gear jumps, but I can usually find my way into a gear. Its really hard for guys that have always driven straight 9- 10- 13 speeds to get onto a super 10, but anyone who's driven a old 5 +2 its just like them shifting.

Its funny, of the equipment at my shop, only a couple have the same shift pattern. And some of the 13's are U pattern and some are H, and sometimes I can't stand and explain to a new guy which ones are which, but I can drive them and not have to think about it.

I've got a old small box 613 (used to have 2 - sold the other one last year) , a 9 speed eaton big box, 9 speed mack, super 10, 4 big box 13 speeds, and a 15 speed. No 18 speeds, and no two stick macks, or 5+4's either.

As far as ratio's go. I actually like the old small box 13's the best. Super low 1st gear, and all the gears are about the same distance apart. Works really nice in my short steep hills. Lots of low gears close together. It actually is nicer than the big box 13's where the top half splits. I really don't need my gears that close together up top, because I don't do that much road time in milder hills, where the close splits at road speed are nice.

I kind of wish some of my 13's were 15's, because the 15's are more like the old small box 13's, where the gears are closer together down low. I don't want it bad enough to change them out, but it would be nice.

I guess the 18's are the best of both worlds, always a split away. Whether up top or down low. But man they are pricey to buy.
 

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I learned to drive a 5 & 2 on the farm at seven, C700 Ford. The 5+2 is known as a farmer transmission along with the super 10.
18 speeds are totally unnecessary unless you are logging or true heavy mover. With the horse power of today's engines if you can't get moving in low with a 13 you have more than just a problem.
A 15 speed is just a 10 with deep reduction. The RTO & RTOO 15 was a great highway gear box but you needed the deep reduction for backing up especially with any thing higher than 3:91 rears
RTOO 15 with 3:55 rear drives and you were flying.

Eaton Transmission Ratio chart below.

http://www.roadranger.com/rr/ProductsServices/ProductsbyCategory/Transmissions/PCT_486870
 

Birken Vogt

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What everyone hated was a straight 7 speed. T-14607B in this case. It has a pretty wide overall ratio coverage but uneven steps. So 1-2 is bigger than 2-3 and the step gets smaller each shift up to 7. I suppose you would get used to it over time but for everyone who is used to the same RPM/ratio step that thing is impossible to get used to.
 

wornout wrench

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What everyone hated was a straight 7 speed. T-14607B in this case. It has a pretty wide overall ratio coverage but uneven steps. So 1-2 is bigger than 2-3 and the step gets smaller each shift up to 7. I suppose you would get used to it over time but for everyone who is used to the same RPM/ratio step that thing is impossible to get used to.
I had one of those in the last shop truck I drove. I liked it. It had the low range needed for the steep logging roads I had to go up but still had the speed on the highway.
It took a bit to get onto it but once you had it figured out it shifted very nice.
 

Wes J

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Well since we're past helping the OP and just throwing out opinions: my favorite transmission is the 8LL. You see them all the time here in tandem dump trucks and grain trucks. You rarely see them in a tractor trailer set up.

I don't find the deep reduction that handy moving forward, but for backing it's just awesome. I have an 8LL in my rollback and I'm always backing into some odd or precarious location. I drop into LL and creep along.

I drive a lot of different trucks and once in a while I get myself switched up going from a 8/9/13 pattern to a straight 10 speed. I know you are not supposed to go back into L in high range on a 8/9/13, but it's happened a few times :oops:
 

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The hidden gear in some Eaton's-instead of shifting the range selector to low range when shifting from 5th to 4th in a thirteen speed shift to overdrive and into low hole.
Now if done wrong bad things will happen {SO I DON"T RECOMMEND ANYONE TRY THAT SHIFT}. Your right Wes 8LL is a good in town country road/flat ground gear box.
But for pulling the grades at speed here in the Northwest it's an entirely different matter, 13 speed is the only way to go. I never have an opinion on gear boxes just facts.
If I had nothing else to do but build Eaton transmissions I would be the happiest mechanic on the planet.
 

Truck Shop

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What everyone hated was a straight 7 speed. T-14607B in this case. It has a pretty wide overall ratio coverage but uneven steps. So 1-2 is bigger than 2-3 and the step gets smaller each shift up to 7. I suppose you would get used to it over time but for everyone who is used to the same RPM/ratio step that thing is impossible to get used to.

What had the big rpm drop was the RTOO 15sp. You needed a good running engine with Big Kahuna's when you pushed the shifter up toward the dash, 700 rpm drop between 9th & 10th.
 

Labparamour

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18 speeds are totally unnecessary unless you are logging or true heavy mover. With the horse power of today's engines if you can't get moving in low with a 13 you have more than just a problem.

Company tractor I was in: ‘01 KW W900, CAT C16 & 18 speeds. 105,500. It was nice to be able to split the lower side coming up from Spokane street onto I-5 N/B in slow traffic- otherwise, you’re right- lotsa power!

I have a hobby truck w 3208 and 5&2- 4th over/5th under basically the same- like only having 6 speeds...

Suggestion made to put a 9513 in it....would be fun but, maybe someday.
 

RZucker

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Company tractor I was in: ‘01 KW W900, CAT C16 & 18 speeds. 105,500. It was nice to be able to split the lower side coming up from Spokane street onto I-5 N/B in slow traffic- otherwise, you’re right- lotsa power!

I have a hobby truck w 3208 and 5&2- 4th over/5th under basically the same- like only having 6 speeds...

Suggestion made to put a 9513 in it....would be fun but, maybe someday.
I had a gas powered GMC service truck with a Clark trans, 5 and 2 setup where you went to 4lo, then 5 lo, then 4 hi, then 5 hi. Drove you nuts at first.
 

John C.

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It seems A model boxes are a little rare but B model boxes are a lot cheaper and more plentiful around here. Anyone know if there is a big difference between them?
 

Truck Shop

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{A} is direct {B} overdrive. Higher ratios. Really a FRO-16210C which is a standard 10spd would work best. The 10C has a 1st gear ratio of 12.0 and a top gear of 0.75.
The FRO 16210C is common like rocks on the ground. You would have to lengthen drive shaft though. Super 10's are not well suited for a dump truck because of the first
gear ratio of 10.2.
 

Wes J

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I had a gas powered GMC service truck with a Clark trans, 5 and 2 setup where you went to 4lo, then 5 lo, then 4 hi, then 5 hi. Drove you nuts at first.

That's a GM thing. They call it a "short 4th". The old grain trucks I used to work on were set up that way.
 

John C.

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Truck Shop, you are correct about the dump truck and the tranny issue. The air bag suspension leads me to believe this is a line haul truck converted to dump truck. How are the ratios in the B in the low gears related to the A? This truck hauls rock in short haul or local use only.
 
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