Keeping your teeth.

[Dozerboy]

On this job I spend most of my time running a 420 Cat doing demo and grading. I'm having problems not breaking the keepers that hold the teeth in. The demo is way more than what should be done with a backhoe without a breaker, but it’s out of my hands. The keeper is two pieces of steel attached with rubber in between. One piece of steel is relatively flat the other has chamfer with little dog ears. Is there a certain way these need to go in or are suppose to face? Any ideas I'm tired of digging in my rubble piles looking for the tooth I just lost.

Thanks

 

[itsgottobegreen]

how about a grade 8 bolt with a plastic insert nut and lock washer with a little locktight. That should work. :drinkup

 

[Dozerboy]

Tried that when I ran out of keepers once, didn't work any longer. And boy was the mechanic **** when he got there.

 

[CascadeScaper]

Tell him to get over it! LOL.

 

[jm3excavating]

I know exactly what ur talking about. . they are two pins with rubber bonding them together in the middle. Do u reuse them when u change teeth or replace with new ones?

 

[Dozerboy]

No, we usually can't get them out in one piece.

 

[RonG]

I know that you have a relatively new machine there but it really sounds like the shanks are worn on that bucket.Lots of buckets use those keepers such as Case for example and I have a lot of hours in ledge and generally where you would not expect to use a rubber tired backhoe without losing teeth unless the shanks were worn.I pried the mouth out of an old bucket once but never had a problem with the teeth falling off.
Ask Digger here,he has a lot of experience with those keepers and I would respect his opinion 100%.
When I change teeth I prefer not to use the old keepers if I can help it but I do not throw them away,I keep them for spares.They usually come out in one piece but not always of course,if you are destroying them as fast as you say you are I would be looking at worn shanks.
The larger cats have the pin and washer arrangement for keepers,the washers look like a lock washer and that system works pretty good,I have found that when they get worn you can sometimes sneak two washers in the cavity and that will buy you a little more time.
I don't remember which way I put the nubs on the keepers but it seems like forward would be the proper way to keep it centered on the tooth when the force is on it but since the tooth falls off when you are dumping there could be an arguement for the nubs to the rear.It wouldn't be too hard to figure out I guess by trying them both ways if you are changing them often anyway.
I lot of dealerships will let you borrow a shank to compare with what you are running if you are a good customer or you could buy one and take it back for credit if you have to but that is what I would be looking at if I were you.
If you find that the shanks are ok then your observations that the machine is not right for the job prevail and that is an issue that somebody needs to address.Ron G

 

[nobull1]

don't remember which way I put the nubs on the keepers but it seems like forward would be the proper way to keep it centered on the tooth when the force is on it but since the tooth falls off when you are dumping there could be an arguement for the nubs to the rear.


When I was at a dealers shop a couple months ago that question came up. His reply was "t!ts in the front". If he was right it seems like a easy thing to remember

 

[xkvator]

i put them on ****/tapers toward the front of the tooth...i made a copy of the tool they sell for driving them out, out of cold roll and reuse some if they look OK.
as RonG said - probably worn shanks...i use to have problems losing teeth on an old 580 with worn shanks...

 

[Ford LT-9000]

I have to agree with the others the shanks are worn out on the bucket time to weld the teeth right to the shanks. When you put the tooth on and it wiggles the shank is worn out.

Those style pins your talking about are common you should have a bag of them in the machine along with a couple spare teeth.

 

[Dozerboy]

Thanks, your all probably right about the shanks this companies maintained is a joke. I had to shut down to go get teeth the day this hoe showed up :cussing .

 

[tylermckee]

Yeah, ive never had a problem with teeth coming off unless the shanks were wore down. sounds like a previous operator kept running the machine when a tooth would break or fall off.

 

[itsgottobegreen]

Ever thought of welding the XXXXXX on??? Then just torch them off when they are worn out. :drinkup

 

[tylermckee]

or build up some weld on the shank itself and do some grinding to get a nice tight fit

 

[digger242j]

I've done that, and that, and that. (Bolted them on with Grade 8 bolts, welded them on and burned them off, and tried building the shank up with weld.)

In the end, nothing works as well as replacing the shank altogether, although in a pinch, the bolt will keep you working longest for the time and effort involved. Welding the tooth on is an act of desperation, and doesn't last anyway. Once the weld cracks, the tooth falls off, and you have to stop and weld it again. (Get the welder out, and all the associated paraphenalia, use it for five minutes, and put it all away before getting back to work.) If the bolt breaks, two minutes and two wrenches gets you going again.

If you're going to go to the trouble of building the shank up and grinding it back to the proper shape, you might as well just replace the whole thing.

BTW, I looked around, and found a flex pin (that's what Case calls the rubber and metal pins we're talking about here), that has the word "back" engraved on the side away from the nubs. I have a bunch of other ones that don't say anything, but I think the difference is only that they are from different parts manufacturers.

I couldn't find any, but I'm also pretty sure I've bought ones that have nubs on both sides.

 

[Squizzy246B]

You guys put a Hex on me with this thread. Haven't broken a tooth off for months and yesterday I snapped one of the chisels off my trash rake...weld on adapter and all. :cussing :cussing . Now I'll have to blow the foot off and weld a new one on as well as get a new shoe/chisel.

We use the roll pins for the chisels but we run tiger teeth on our demo stuff with the rubbers and bumpy pins. We break the teeth in five minutes if the foot/adapter profile is even slightly worn.

 

[Dozerboy]

I'll just have to deal with it. Welding won't hold up to the demo I'm doing, and if I send it to the yard for new shanks I'll be down to a 1' bucket only. They have had my 3' " at "the yard fixing it" for 4/5 months now, but the last time I saw it it was on our 416 now missing 2 shanks with the same teeth I sent it to the yard with.

 

[glsahl]

Sounds like your using a Hensly X230 style tooth,similar to JD's fang .If you look at the pin,the space between the "dog ears" will match the width of the shank,closest to the lip.Most manufacturers cast the word back into the pin,but not always.Also,there are two lengths of pins available for the JD style tooth,I got a batch of the shorter ones,and lost teeth left and right.Worn shanks will aggrevate tooth loss,and at less than $10.00 a shank,for the X230,I'm not sure if building up the shank is practical,doesn't take much longer to replace the shank.