HandLogger
Well-Known Member
...Somebody comes up with an Electric SSL! Is this what the future looks like?
-
Thank you for visiting HeavyEquipmentForums.com! Our objective is to provide industry professionals a place to gather to exchange questions, answers and ideas. We welcome you to register using the "Register" icon at the top of the page. We'd appreciate any help you can offer in spreading the word of our new site. The more members that join, the bigger resource for all to enjoy. Thank you!
Just When You Think You've Seen It All...
- Thread starter HandLogger
- Start date
...Somebody comes up with an Electric SSL! Is this what the future looks like?
CM1995
Administrator
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2007
- Messages
- 13,350
- Location
- Alabama
- Occupation
- Running what I brung and taking what I win
Doosan - I mean Bobcat has one too.
https://www.bobcat.com/company-info/innovation/all-electric-compact-loader
4 hours of operation before it needs to be charged but I heard it's all the rage..
4 hours of operation..I'll just leave that lying right there...
https://www.bobcat.com/company-info/innovation/all-electric-compact-loader
4 hours of operation before it needs to be charged but I heard it's all the rage..
4 hours of operation..I'll just leave that lying right there...
skyking1
Senior Member
that's about 3 hours longer than I can stand to run one, so I see no conflict there
HandLogger
Well-Known Member
Uncle Sam taught me to be an Electrical Engineer while I wore a uniform for him...and, quite frankly, I don't see how an electrically-powered piece of heavy equipment is going to hold up under our mountainous conditions in the Berkshires. At least when I fill the tank with diesel and turn the key on our CAT 3054T engine -- in sub-zero weather -- I have a pretty good idea about how much work I can expect from the machine...and that's not to mention the fact that we don't have electrical utilities on nearly every parcel of forest land we work on. My apologies to anyone who's all for "green," but give me an old reliable diesel anytime.
CM1995
Administrator
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2007
- Messages
- 13,350
- Location
- Alabama
- Occupation
- Running what I brung and taking what I win
That's what all these manufacturers of these electric machines are missing - the ability to charge all these machines on a job site.
Take for example the large arena project we recently finished. We had on site at one time -
349FL, 325FL, D5G, CS533E and a 279D
In addition there were 4 "Lull's", many warehouse forklifts, 4 CTL's, 3 mini's and 10+ manlifts.
The $1M question - how are we all going to charge those machines at the end of the day? There were night shifts often so if the night crew needed the same equipment would the crew need 2 of everything while 1 charges?
During the arena project they had to kill the main plant power to the entire complex so they brought in a huge diesel generator from UR on a tractor trailer to power the building. GC used our fuel supplier and the tanker ran daily.
I can see the future of all these green "zero emissions" electric machines all lined up to be charged by a big diesel generator on a trailer chugging away making that electricity. Press release reads - "We have a zero emissions job site just don't look at the diesel generator"...
skyking1
Senior Member
they have a place, a very limited one. I am trying to rent an 09 door crawler electric excavator, and they are book out and sold out for several months. That skid steer is another that has a place.
The job is remodeling in the middle of an active nursing home, and there is no way to run an engine in there. I can't bag it well enough to do negative air on the whole space, and I am surrounded by active hallways. Big ducts are out. An electric mini ex is the answer.
They want 48K for an 09 machine with very limited usefulness for anything else but remodel digging.
The job is remodeling in the middle of an active nursing home, and there is no way to run an engine in there. I can't bag it well enough to do negative air on the whole space, and I am surrounded by active hallways. Big ducts are out. An electric mini ex is the answer.
They want 48K for an 09 machine with very limited usefulness for anything else but remodel digging.
HandLogger
Well-Known Member
My little brother went quite a bit overboard a while back and paid a premium for one of those Dodge (FCA at the time) Challenger Wide Body Redeye Hellcats. Apparently, FCA sold a bunch of these type vehicles and, in fact, Stellantis (the new owner of Dodge) continues to sell these things like hot cakes. Well, Stellantis recently announced that they will discontinue manufacturing the hemi engines for these machines after the 2023 model year. Why? Because they're being taxed to the hilt by the government for producing these gasoline-powered vehicles and are being "encouraged" to retool for electric engines.
As I mentioned in the OP, I was an EE as a younger man, so I made a career in the electrical field before returning to my rural roots. Consequently, I've got no truck with electricity...but when I hear folks on the radio and on TV telling anyone who will listen that we're headed to a zero petroleum world -- and that anyone who doesn't go along with that is "deplorable" -- a big red flag goes up for me. I've worked Uncle Sam on active duty, NASA and the DoD (on contract) and, in all of those situations, the electrical work I did was in support of electromechanical devices (mostly military aviation and aerospace)...but it doesn't take a degree of any kind to tell you that metal moving against metal requires lubrication: electrically-powered or not. Similarly, I've got news for all of the folks who believe that "synthetic" lubricants grease the road to a green world. Most synthetic lubricants are based on distilled and refined crude oil. So when I hear some old draft dodger, on satellite radio, spinning a yarn about driving around on a Saturday night with the top down and, all the while, utilizing zero petroleum...well, quite frankly, I feel a bit nauseous.
Surely, electrical technologies continue to improve, but, once again, I can't feature how a "battery-powered" piece of heavy equipment is going to replace our old CAT diesels when it comes to long days in remote, mountainous, sub-zero conditions. Hell, even modern "green" trains -- with electric engines -- still require a diesel generator to keep them going. Electrical has it's place, no doubt, but the idea of zero petroleum machinery is still science fiction at this point.
As I mentioned in the OP, I was an EE as a younger man, so I made a career in the electrical field before returning to my rural roots. Consequently, I've got no truck with electricity...but when I hear folks on the radio and on TV telling anyone who will listen that we're headed to a zero petroleum world -- and that anyone who doesn't go along with that is "deplorable" -- a big red flag goes up for me. I've worked Uncle Sam on active duty, NASA and the DoD (on contract) and, in all of those situations, the electrical work I did was in support of electromechanical devices (mostly military aviation and aerospace)...but it doesn't take a degree of any kind to tell you that metal moving against metal requires lubrication: electrically-powered or not. Similarly, I've got news for all of the folks who believe that "synthetic" lubricants grease the road to a green world. Most synthetic lubricants are based on distilled and refined crude oil. So when I hear some old draft dodger, on satellite radio, spinning a yarn about driving around on a Saturday night with the top down and, all the while, utilizing zero petroleum...well, quite frankly, I feel a bit nauseous.
Surely, electrical technologies continue to improve, but, once again, I can't feature how a "battery-powered" piece of heavy equipment is going to replace our old CAT diesels when it comes to long days in remote, mountainous, sub-zero conditions. Hell, even modern "green" trains -- with electric engines -- still require a diesel generator to keep them going. Electrical has it's place, no doubt, but the idea of zero petroleum machinery is still science fiction at this point.
skyking1
Senior Member
That IHI battery powered excavator goes about 5 hours on a charge. I don't have a problem with that because if I got fellows hand shoveling for me, you can stick a fork in them too at about 4 or 5 hours!
hosspuller
Senior Member
Modern life is depending on the petroleum industry. I'm in agriculture., guess where fertilizer comes from ... My working career was in plastics.
We eat petroleum products, we wear petro products, we live in petro products, our health care system depends on petro products, Drs. implant petro products in our bodies, Electricity depends on petro products for insulation, Drugs are sourced from petro products, machinery is lubricated by petro products, to say nothing of petro energy.
Yet we as a public listen and follow No-nothing liberal arts graduates to eliminate or hamstring the petro industry. It's worse than the blind leading the blind. It's more like the pied piper leading the rats to their death. Liberals want ill for everyone but themselves.`
My only question is : "do they do it out of malice or ignorance?"
We eat petroleum products, we wear petro products, we live in petro products, our health care system depends on petro products, Drs. implant petro products in our bodies, Electricity depends on petro products for insulation, Drugs are sourced from petro products, machinery is lubricated by petro products, to say nothing of petro energy.
Yet we as a public listen and follow No-nothing liberal arts graduates to eliminate or hamstring the petro industry. It's worse than the blind leading the blind. It's more like the pied piper leading the rats to their death. Liberals want ill for everyone but themselves.`
My only question is : "do they do it out of malice or ignorance?"
Rob Gunn
Well-Known Member
Green machine or not, I question how safe it is to run the unit with remote controls? Is there a built in safety distance limit so the operator with the remote cant run over himself? My next issue would be the fact that the operator simply cant "Feel" the operation. Maybe I'm to much old school but Iv had my ass in the seat of a lot of equipment for 50+ years and can "Feel" the machine and how its working. I guess this remote control machine would just take time to learn and get use to operating the same as any equipment?
As far as the discussion of "Green". I have issues with the full Buy-in. We will never see a day where ALL Gas and Diesel will be gone. There are simply to many applications that will just have to be done the old Gas and Diesel way.
As far as the discussion of "Green". I have issues with the full Buy-in. We will never see a day where ALL Gas and Diesel will be gone. There are simply to many applications that will just have to be done the old Gas and Diesel way.
John C.
Senior Member
I don't think anyone thinks there is any way for a total replacement strategy for petroleum. It is the burnable stuff where people are looking for alternatives.
I think right now you are seeing the electric iron as a marketing issue more than anything. I will say that it will become more and more an issue as the extremes in weather keep moving around. I believe electric cars will come first because no one in this country is going to give up the freedom to go anywhere they want whenever they want. Cars will drive the the infrastructure toward some measure of supply for a substitute energy source. One thing is sure though. The days for buying a huge horsepower fire breathing dragon that gets five to ten miles per gallon of gas when the driver can't keep his foot off the pedal and only carries two people are going to fade into being the good old days.
I do a conference next week and will ask around about the future.
I think right now you are seeing the electric iron as a marketing issue more than anything. I will say that it will become more and more an issue as the extremes in weather keep moving around. I believe electric cars will come first because no one in this country is going to give up the freedom to go anywhere they want whenever they want. Cars will drive the the infrastructure toward some measure of supply for a substitute energy source. One thing is sure though. The days for buying a huge horsepower fire breathing dragon that gets five to ten miles per gallon of gas when the driver can't keep his foot off the pedal and only carries two people are going to fade into being the good old days.
I do a conference next week and will ask around about the future.
HandLogger
Well-Known Member
The old CAT equipment we make a living with uses "burnable" diesel...and none of it is exactly "economical," either, so where are the lines drawn? As I mentioned in my last post, Stellantis (Dodge) is essentially being forced to go electric. This doesn't strike me as being a gradual move, by any stretch, so, as per usual, the powers that be are going about this the wrong way. Instead of illustrating a slow move toward alternatives, the folks in DC are attempting to ram this thing down our throats...and that's not the kind of government I wore camouflage to support.
To be perfectly honest about this, we should've been making gradual moves starting back when Carter was in the big chair. I clearly recall how OPEC was attempting to strangle us and, closer to home, the lines around the block to buy gasoline. I also recall how Mr. Peanut, a Rickover nuclear power disciple, came out against nuclear power as an alternative to the steam-driven oil-burning power plants that supply the majority of our power today. It all comes down to effective leadership and, obviously, we "ain't" getting much of that these days.
The more things are forced, the more resistance there will be...and I think that the most recent ruling by the US Supreme Court exemplifies this very well. By curtailing executive power when it came to forced vaccinations, the big court has shown the US people how this type of dictate runs contrary to the very foundation of our constitutional republic, and thank God they're there to keep balance.
To be perfectly honest about this, we should've been making gradual moves starting back when Carter was in the big chair. I clearly recall how OPEC was attempting to strangle us and, closer to home, the lines around the block to buy gasoline. I also recall how Mr. Peanut, a Rickover nuclear power disciple, came out against nuclear power as an alternative to the steam-driven oil-burning power plants that supply the majority of our power today. It all comes down to effective leadership and, obviously, we "ain't" getting much of that these days.
The more things are forced, the more resistance there will be...and I think that the most recent ruling by the US Supreme Court exemplifies this very well. By curtailing executive power when it came to forced vaccinations, the big court has shown the US people how this type of dictate runs contrary to the very foundation of our constitutional republic, and thank God they're there to keep balance.
John C.
Senior Member
Sounds a little too political for any of us to bother debating. We get to vote and that is it. Unless you want to run for office somewhere, don't waste the wear and tear on the key board.
Camshawn
Senior Member
The question I have is where will the electricity come from?
It is a simple question but the answer seems to beyond most people. If everyone on our street had electric cars, 30 houses, each house has 4 to 6 cars ( most have a mobile or suite). The power line up the road will not support the chargers. The services to each house will be taxed, the transformers on the poles will not handle the load. The last house already has a voltage sag at dinner time. If our street is nearing its limit, how will the rest of the grid not fail? Will we have solar panels on every house to charge are cars? More Nuclear, Natural gas, or coal plant’s?
It is a simple question but the answer seems to beyond most people. If everyone on our street had electric cars, 30 houses, each house has 4 to 6 cars ( most have a mobile or suite). The power line up the road will not support the chargers. The services to each house will be taxed, the transformers on the poles will not handle the load. The last house already has a voltage sag at dinner time. If our street is nearing its limit, how will the rest of the grid not fail? Will we have solar panels on every house to charge are cars? More Nuclear, Natural gas, or coal plant’s?
Interior demo and construction is the only place they have a use IMO. Bobcats new electric unit is the new buzz..... We have electric excavators.. Well electric if you plug it into a 50kw generator that runs on diesel... With everybody going electric we better build some new good old fashioned coal fired power plants so people have electricity to charge there cars and equipment on... Taxing our already aging crumbling power grid sounds like a good option... Hell we cant even get customers to under stand you have to plug in scissor lifts at the end of the day... Hope the electricians put in 900 temporary outlets at every job so every one can charge up.. And don't forget to park it as far away as possible so you can.get three one hundred foot 16/3 cords hooked up to charge it..
HandLogger
Well-Known Member
As I understand things, there's no one forcing anyone to read or write any of this. If anything is too "political" for the sensitive among us, then don't bother adding to a thread that I started. It is clearly a discussion about the future of our business and, sorry, politics does play into it. People freely gave their reactions...and, yes, some of them are reactions to politics, so I did the same in return. That's what an open forum is. I wore a uniform overseas to support your right to speak and/or write what's on your mind, so please don't infringe on mine. You're welcome.
JLarson
Senior Member
Hey, hey, hey... don't go making any sort of logical points.
It's usually impossible just to find enough places or cords to plug in scissor lifts on jobs lol.
hosspuller
Senior Member
The general public has no idea of the scale of energy use. The only experience many people have is their car or lawn mower. They fuel their car with 20 gallons a week. But can't think of a OTR semi-truck filling 200 gallons a day. And most city people don't even have that. I'm a city bred fellow, but engineering educated. I have read on a forum someone saying we should use car batteries to power our homes instead of coal plants. On RV forums, people wonder how they can run their microwave and a/c unit on a battery or a solar cell.
The public is energy ignorant and schools, media and political leadership perpetuate that for the "Green energy" agenda. North Carolina mandates renewable energy. My electric bill has a "renewable energy surcharge" Someone is cashing in. And it isn't me.
The public is energy ignorant and schools, media and political leadership perpetuate that for the "Green energy" agenda. North Carolina mandates renewable energy. My electric bill has a "renewable energy surcharge" Someone is cashing in. And it isn't me.
CM1995
Administrator
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2007
- Messages
- 13,350
- Location
- Alabama
- Occupation
- Running what I brung and taking what I win
An electric car reminds me of a funny story recently -
Friend of mine who lives in Mobile, AL buys a brand new full electric Volvo SUV. He changes jobs where he still works remotely however the main office is in New Jersey. For orientation he was required to head to the main office in NJ. Not wanting to fly and having a new car he decided to drive..
The trip was documented on FB. Amongst the various site seeing pics were at first a pic or two of "Joe" charging his car. Well the site seeing pics dwindled and more and more "I'm charging this car" pics documented the trip until there was a pic of "Joe" trading in his electric Volvo for a good ol' gas burning BMW X5 in Tennessee. He didn't even wait to get home..
If you want an electric car or electric Bobcat that's fine and Jim Dandy - however I don't and don't force it on me.
Friend of mine who lives in Mobile, AL buys a brand new full electric Volvo SUV. He changes jobs where he still works remotely however the main office is in New Jersey. For orientation he was required to head to the main office in NJ. Not wanting to fly and having a new car he decided to drive..
The trip was documented on FB. Amongst the various site seeing pics were at first a pic or two of "Joe" charging his car. Well the site seeing pics dwindled and more and more "I'm charging this car" pics documented the trip until there was a pic of "Joe" trading in his electric Volvo for a good ol' gas burning BMW X5 in Tennessee. He didn't even wait to get home..
If you want an electric car or electric Bobcat that's fine and Jim Dandy - however I don't and don't force it on me.