Just another chicken shack..

[Landclearer]

We have done a few jobs that you find all kinds of stuff like tires, logs and building debris but not as deep as yours. We can usually find clean material about 5 or 6 feet.

Chris

 

[OldandWorn]

At 18-20 ft deep we ran into buried trees and other assorted trash -

I would love to know the history of a site like that. Who...when...things of that sort.

What a mess CM.

 

[CM1995]

I would love to know the history of a site like that. Who...when...things of that sort.

What a mess CM.

Yeah it was a mess OldandWorn but a good add on to the job.

I found out the history of the site from the bldg inspector who I have know for many years and the past landowner. There was a draw that ran through the back of the lot in the '70's. The only building in the area during that time was a U-Totem gas station that the previous owners Father built. Over the years, the draw was piped and fill was placed in. As we all know how the "I have a hole to fill in, dump for free" sites go, it was hardly regulated what went in and of course no concern for compaction or organic materials - it's just the way it was done.

I found out after we completed the undercutting that the other buildings "upstream" had the same work done to get them suitable to place a building on.

It's always a challenge on infill sites, you never know what you will find. The previous building was a light weight wood framed building with the load spread out over a slab on grade foundation. There was 4-5' of decent material bridging the muck so there were no problems, as the building floated. The new restaurant is a much heavier building (40K lbs just in the structural steel) with a brick facade and heavier live loads on the building slab. It was worth the owners time and money to dig out and prepare a proper pad to build a $1M plus facility. This location is a prime spot in a suburban area with a high traffic count so they should make up the overage rather quickly.

 

[d9gdon]

Didn't you say that the GC had formed up to pour concrete for the slab where you're digging? That's a lot of haul off. Were you rained out a lot in September and October as well?

At least it's a change order and not in your lap. What kind of fill material can you go back with?

 

[CM1995]

I'm always wondering where the point is to pull the trigger on a new machine. The scenario you had was perfect for a short term rental hoe. If you had owned a hoe, that had been mostly sitting until this situation appeared, that "money that you could have put in your pocket, instead of sending it to Cat Rental" would have gone to the machine OH instead of linning your pockets as profits. I have been told that utilization of 800 hours a year is the point at which purchase, of a new machine, makes more sense than rental. I would guess that this might also apply to a relatively new, late model, machine as well since they don't usually offer the same incentives (ie financing) to help with cash flow.

That's where I am at now. I had my Cat salesman run some numbers on a 320E and 321DLCR. I have owned a 321 before and know the machine, it's a good tractor. However, I do not like the new E's. It was $1850 a week to rent the 319. Trading in a backhoe and forklift and going through a Cat Financial lease for 4 years with a 5K hour power train warranty is $1900 a month for the 320E and $2,000 a month for the 321. That has me thinking and scratching my head. The only problem I have right now is the economy - I do not have the confidence to sign on the line when the work is sporadic. If I had enough work that required renting a 320 sized machine for 1 week of the month, then I would sign on the line but right now the work is just not there. Rental fits the bill during these times for me, however I plan on it changing and adding an excavator to the fleet, I am a glass 1/2 full type of guy.

For me, my 315 is the most heavily utilized machine I have. I would think that the D5 you have would have low utilization. I know that the dozer can be the most effective way to move dirt, but the hoe is so much more versatile. Since you already have the track loader can't it pull double duty by doing the lions share of the dozer work (I know they aren't the same but it can do the ME work). I don't know what type of soils you usually encounter (mostly rock free clay from the pics you've posted before) so the dozer probably makes more sense.

The D5 is pretty highly utilized in my work. The reason why I keep it around is it's low cost of operation. The maintenance, UC and fuel consumption for what it can accomplish is more profitable than the 953. The 953 is a fuel pig. The loader is a jack of all trades so it earns it's keep even though it will run through 40-50 gals a day if worked hard. A typical job for me (including this one) is putting the loader in the pit loading trucks and the D5 on site spreading the fill. The loader doubles for demolition, as was the case in this job.

The soil conditions in my area vary greatly. From sand to heavy clay to rock. The area I live in is where the Appalachian Mountains meet the coastal plain. Sites vary in composition within miles. I really have to know the area and what the soil type is when bidding a job, rock and unsuitable soils clauses are the norm. Taking a line from Forest Gump - Our sites our like a box of chocolates, you never know what you are going to get.

 

[CM1995]

Didn't you say that the GC had formed up to pour concrete for the slab where you're digging? That's a lot of haul off. Were you rained out a lot in September and October as well?

At least it's a change order and not in your lap. What kind of fill material can you go back with?

I have been lazy these pics are from August. We had a tremendous amount of rain in August, which didn't help this site. For two weeks the first thing we did was unload the pump and dewater the hole. I hate mud pumps...

The building I demo'd had a monolithic slab on grade, which was easily tore out. Yeah, undercutting/poor soils excavation is always a clause I include in the contracts because I run across this situation from time to time. It's a nice T&M add for the jobs that require it.

After we "plugged the hole with rip-rap and #2 stone, we imported a nice red sandy silt material to fill to sub-grade. This material compacts and blades nicely, handles water as well.

 

[d9gdon]

Now it makes sense. Hopefully you and I can get a new economy after election day. Glad to see you've got a bigger type job.

 

[245dlc]

Hi CM excellent pictures and a good thread. I can understand putting clauses in contracts for poor soil conditions and undercutting when doing demolition work. I worked on a few jobs in the past including a parking lot where we ran into thick layers of yellow silt and the GC who bid the parking lot job had to haul in large quantities of 6" rock to build it back up, plus I discovered a large fuel tank and a hand poured manhole that went quite deep into the subgrade. I don't think they made any money on that job. lol Even though I live in Canada this particular province seems to have gotten itself into a bit of a recession I've spent a good part of the work season sitting on my arse looking for work and doing odd jobs now I'm hoping we get a fair bit of snow as that's guaranteed work cleaning streets and parking lots.

 

[CM1995]

D9gdon, yeah I am planning on the economy improving one way or the other. Over the years I have done everything from fill in holes in someone's yard to having a job that lasted 3 years, moving 3K CY a day. The restaurant site jobs are probably the sweetest gig around. I have done large hotel sites, taking everything outside the building on - only to be free supervision and the bank for the GC in the end - if you get my drift.

These small sites are perfect. The GC's want you to take the erosion control, demo if any, grading and storm sewer. Their plumbers install the sanitary/grease trap and water. The GC also has his concrete sub do the curbs and his own paving outfit. This works out perfect for me as I find it hard to make money on top of another sub and be competitive - it was hard back when the economy was good.

The only problem is you have to travel somewhat to follow the business.

245DL, I hope you get mountains of the white stuff. I didn't know that any area of Canada was in a slump. I have friends in Toronto and Calgary and they haven't missed a beat.

I can't believe the GC didn't have an undercut/poor soils clause in the contract. I have ran across bids before where the Owner/GC has a site with know poor soils and wants a hard bid - no change orders/T&M. I don't even bother bidding those jobs anymore as I know I will be high, someone else will want the risk more than I and I am happy to let them have it.

As the old saying goes "I can sit at home and be broke, no sense in working towards being broke.

 

[245dlc]

Yeah I'm hoping this isn't going to last long but we had a pretty devastating flood last spring and the current governing party claims that it put us into this situation. So there has only really been one or two ongoing big civil jobs and they haven't done any big highway work here like twinning since about 2006/07 there are talks of some big hydroelectric projects in the north but we'll see if they actually happen. I'm not sure what the details of that contract were but judging by the supervisor's look on his face and body language, some brown stuff that wasn't dirt was hitting the fan. lol