John Deere and Cat engine emission controls

[Barnstormer]

In the market to buy either a John Deere 655/755 or a CAT 953/963. Trying to stay away from model years that have the emission controls. Anyone know what year the emission controls were added?? Any other specific items to look for on those machines. It will be used on a farm for cutting in access roads, tree clearing and other track loader tasks. Thanks in advance for any info.

 

[DMiller]

Emissions controls started long ago on diesel, most of the electronic controls engine if not all are EPA rated as to some form of controls level. For the Deere units will find that late 90's to early 2000's were the onset there, Cat designators after a B series will most all be electronic controls and varied levels of emissions categories. Not until the last five to seven years have they gone Heavy Emissions controls with Exhaust Filtration or DEF.

 

[Birken Vogt]

If you find a particular machine you are interested in, there will be a sticker on the engine telling what emissions controls it has, or you can look up the engine family number on the internet and it will tell you.

You will see something like this:

Emissions control TC DI EM EGR DOC

TC = turbocharger
DI = direct injection
EM = engine modification
EGR = exhaust gas recirculation
DOC = diesel oxidation catalyst

The list goes on and on.

I don't know what these machines ever used specifically but things to stay away from are generally diesel particulate filters, EGR, and some modern common rail injection systems. DOC and older common rail seemed to be OK, generally speaking. I don't know if Cat or JD ever used it on the older machines, though, I think that was more of a Cummins thing but I think JD did a short time.

 

[Wes J]

Newer Deere tractors are common rail. Not sure about the smaller engines.

 

[Birken Vogt]

What I meant was, they only used common rail a short time before they went to the full insane emissions package, before that it was mechanical injection, no?

 

[DMiller]

I believe that Deere stuck with hard pump/nozzle injection a little longer than many other AG/Industrials did.

 

[funwithfuel]

I don't know about agriculture, but in CE there is usually an engine spec tag. T3 or Tier3 would probably be what you are after. As BV pointed out, there are additional acronyms to be aware of. Try to shy away from anything "cooled EGR" It's not if it will fail, it's how far and how deep you'll be when it does.
DPF is expensive regular maintenance. SCR is right behind it. Works ok, when it works.
In the last 7-8 years a lot of small companies have been hurt really bad finacially , I am not a fan of emissions regulations. You know, it's a shame you don't live in a 3rd world country. They don't have to adhere to the regulations. All the power, all the economy, none of the headache.

 

[John C.]

From my experience the tags will say some thing like "conforms to federal and California regulations for model year XXXX. I've not seen a tag that specifically states whether or not the engine is a Tier 3 or Tier 4. Also as I recall for construction equipment Tier 3 and interim Tier 4 engines for the most part went to some combination of DPF, cooled exhaust gas recirculation, common rail fuel injection systems, electronic fuel injection control and selective catalytic reduction. I think a few had diesel exhaust fluid at Interim Tier 4 but most all that I know of have it all at Tier 4 final. Somewhere I have a chart that give the years for each Tier designation and will post it if and when I find it. All this is further confused by the fact that some engine manufacturers were early adopters and received credits that let them go longer before being required to eat the whole package.

 

[Birken Vogt]

Some manufacturers have tried really hard to get away from DPF or SCR on the smaller ones by squeezing technology inside the engine. Like sometimes they manage to not have a DPF but still have a DOC and what must be some super injectors.

 

[funwithfuel]

From my experience the tags will say some thing like "conforms to federal and California regulations for model year XXXX. I've not seen a tag that specifically states whether or not the engine is a Tier 3 or Tier 4. Also as I recall for construction equipment Tier 3 and interim Tier 4 engines for the most part went to some combination of DPF, cooled exhaust gas recirculation, common rail fuel injection systems, electronic fuel injection control and selective catalytic reduction. I think a few had diesel exhaust fluid at Interim Tier 4 but most all that I know of have it all at Tier 4 final. Somewhere I have a chart that give the years for each Tier designation and will post it if and when I find it. All this is further confused by the fact that some engine manufacturers were early adopters and received credits that let them go longer before being required to eat the whole package.

You know John C , I might have been spoiled by the tags I saw on a regular basis . I did a lot of searching ,these few are all I could find on the net .

 

[John C.]

The genset shows Tier 4 but I don't see it on the refer engine. I don't recall ever seeing the Tier rating on dozers, loaders and other off road equipment.

 

[Birken Vogt]

The genset says ECS (Emissions Control System): EM (Engine Modification), IFI (Indirect Fuel Injection)

The engine family number there is fkbxl.719kcc and if you type that into Google you can often get a meaningful page as is the case here that explains what features the engine has.

The reefer says Tier 4i down at the bottom. Also it looks like the tag may be for a replacement engine. The tag is not really complete I kind of think. There may be another one somewhere.

 

[John C.]

I see it now. I'm not good at reading upside down.

 

[funwithfuel]

Sorry for the inverted pic.

 

[Barnstormer]

Big thanks to the forum for all the help and insight. Was able to narrow the choice down to a Cat 963B and was fortunate enough to purchase a low time 1997 machine. So far so good.