John Deere 160clc slow and week functions intermittent

[The Dirt Guy]

One thing which is for sure the system main relief is lifting and allowing the machine to not build the expected pressures. The relief valve is new (and not saying it could be bad even though it is new) but what can cause the relief valve to fail: mechanical failure within, dirt/debris in the oil and what else???

 

[The Dirt Guy]

Is there a problem on the suction side, between the tank and pump? Is the hydraulic tank pressurizing ( I think it is supposed to pressurize).

Does your machine need the pricy no zinc oil?

Im not aware of a suction issue.

 

[mg2361]

I have asked earlier in this thread, did anyone perform the pump regulator test and adjustment - engine pulldown? If you have no metal in the filters, and have poor performance with the engine power being confirmed, then I would have someone check the above mentioned test. It is a simple, inexpensive procedure to perform. I have had many 160C's with that complaint and the pulldown was not adjusted properly. Eliminate the simple stuff first.

 

[The Dirt Guy]

Ahhh, that machine is older and has ECO mode, which was removed from later 160C machines. With ECO mode, the PVC reduces engine rpm slightly when the control levers are in neutral. Then raises to fast idle speed when a function is activated.

If you can, pin both tracks so they can be stalled in forward. If you don't have the ability to pin the tracks, stalling a swing function for one pump and stalling the bucket curl for the second pump will suffice, though not as accurate IMO. Then with the engine at operating temp, hydraulics at operating temp, stall the left track and record your engine rpm. Release the left pedal, let engine rpm stabilize, then stall your right track and record your engine rpm. Then stall both tracks and record your engine rpm. Post results please.

And, if you have a gauge in the intake manifold, you can check your boost at the same time. Stall a function until the engine is at rated speed of approximately 2200 rpm and see what your boost is. You may have to feather the stalled function a bit back and forth to get the highest reading out of the gauge you can get. Post results.

When I pin the tracks i would get the same response as if i used any other function...i started the machine activated either track display pump delivery pressure 1 or 2 would be at 35mpa then when i release the function and reactivated it would read 18-20mpa. engine rpm is good and not affecting anything

 

[The Dirt Guy]

I have asked earlier in this thread, did anyone perform the pump regulator test and adjustment - engine pulldown? If you have no metal in the filters, and have poor performance with the engine power being confirmed, then I would have someone check the above mentioned test. It is a simple, inexpensive procedure to perform. I have had many 160C's with that complaint and the pulldown was not adjusted properly. Eliminate the simple stuff first.

I will re visit the pulldown test once the machine is back from the dealer. I believe we did a pulldown test and verified it was ok but more than likely i will be revisiting all the items to double check and try to figure out why the main relif is lifting and not working correctly.

 

[The Dirt Guy]

I have asked earlier in this thread, did anyone perform the pump regulator test and adjustment - engine pulldown? If you have no metal in the filters, and have poor performance with the engine power being confirmed, then I would have someone check the above mentioned test. It is a simple, inexpensive procedure to perform. I have had many 160C's with that complaint and the pulldown was not adjusted properly. Eliminate the simple stuff first.

Can the pulldown become out of adjustment even if its never been touched prior to the issue developing?

 

[mg2361]

When I pin the tracks i would get the same response as if i used any other function...i started the machine activated either track display pump delivery pressure 1 or 2 would be at 35mpa then when i release the function and reactivated it would read 18-20mpa. engine rpm is good and not affecting anything

When I ask about pulldown information, I look for rpm, not pressures. The procedure uses rpm to adjust pump flow. The rpm pulldown spec is, however, dependent on the system pressure being to spec, but sometimes the regulators are such that the pump does not stroke enough to develop the pressure needed to reach spec. So, I mark the adjustment screws, make adjustments (1/4 turn at a time), if the adjustments don't fix the issue, I return the screws to where I started and begin looking elsewhere for the problem. Easy, peasy, and no money spent, unless the adjustment didn't work.

Can the pulldown become out of adjustment even if its never been touched prior to the issue developing?

Yes

 

[The Dirt Guy]

So we did do a pulldown test and rpm's did not drop and if I remember correctly they stayed around 2000-2300, this was performed on the following comment -->Also diesel Dave at high idle rpm is 2010 when functions are moving rpm is at 2100-2300rpm. Just an update haven’t check pressure or anything on the turbo.
I had to think about this because I knew we did it and nothing changed and we put the adjustment screws back to where they were

 

[The Dirt Guy]

The dealership is stating that the main relief valve is lifting due to dirty oil…any thoughts on this? I know it can impact but I just find it hard to believe since I’ve used and seen other machines with hydraulic oil worse than this. Just seems like a waste of 6k to do

 

[Diesel Dave]

The “dirty” oil is going to have much more of an effect on the main hydraulic pump overall condition than a new relief valve.
I assume the dealer is basing the hydraulic oil condition on oil sample results.
What does the text of the oil sample state as next steps regarding the oil ?
Regardless , I wouldn’t change the hydraulic oil until the root cause of the intermittent low pressure is found and repaired.

 

[The Dirt Guy]

I agree im changing the oil regardless and the dealer didnt pull a sample they just said they could see it seddle on top of the filter in the tank and the oil is cloudy.

 

[The Dirt Guy]

Another question regarding the main relief valve, this machine had a hammer on it basically its entire life until I purchased it, Ive owned it for 8yrs now. Could the hammer have anything to do with it and if so what areas should I focus my attention on?

 

[7379df]

Did you get the problem resolved ? Was curious if hammer had anything to do with this ?

 

[The Dirt Guy]

Unfortunately, the issue is not solved yet...I did have a guy ask the same thing and was very adamant about the hammer causing the issue, but no hammer has been on it in 8-10yrs. Also, Since I brought it home, I have changed the oil out once and filters and warmed it up and it appears to be working better but the main relief still lifts just not as much and the stick in is still weak, the speed is there as long as the relief doesnt lift but the power is not there like it use to be. I am waiting on a shipment of AW46 zinc free oil to arrive and once it does, I am flushing it once more then changing filter out and doing a final fill and see how it performs.

 

[Vetech63]

Interesting........im firing up popcorn

 

[The Dirt Guy]

So the hydraulic oil and filters have been drained and changed 4 times now and the relief valve is not sticking open as bad now but the arm in function seems to be weak. the speed is there but when you put the bucket in the ground and pull the stick towards the machine it will stop as if its at its max and HP mode kicks in like it should and pressures appear good from the display but it seems weak any thoughts?

 

[Vetech63]

Has the internal leakage on the cylinder been checked?

 

[Diesel Dave]

Stick functions have both pumps activated.
What are the pressures when stick in is stalled (oil at operating temperature)

 

[The Dirt Guy]

PUMP 1 & 2 delivery pressure is 5200psi and oil temp is in range. The internal leakage on the stick has not been checked yet that is on the to-do-list this weekend.

 

[RandiB]

Dirt Guy - did you have any luck solving your problem? I have a similar problem with my Deere 160clc; intermittent slow/low power hydraulics. A couple of days ago I was in slow/low power mode but didn’t really notice until I went to travel - so slow. Then suddenly fast tracking. When I got to where I wanted to be all functions were faster and more powerful. Lasted the rest of that day and part of the next, then back to slow/low power for the last two days. It never pulls the engine down. This could get old real fast. I can’t believe the time/money you’ve spent on your machine. I guess I will have to study all of the posts here to try to identify all the pieces and guess where to start looking. Intermittent problems really suck!