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JLG 45HA - Problem with upper controls

Discussion in 'Other Construction/Demolition Equipment' started by knares, Apr 23, 2016.

  1. knares

    knares Member

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    i have a jlg 45 ha boom and it is having some issues. all the controls on the ground work perfectly. the platform controls work some time and others takes some trickery to get them to work and other times they just dont work at all.

    thats me to
    has anyone had any luck fixing there problems
     
  2. knares

    knares Member

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    Hi all
    I would like to ask if anyone can help
    The problems were intermittent but now they are permanent
    I have bought a manual and i have two other wiring diagrams but mine is different to all of them.
    I found these numbers under the engine cover
    4821127 with a 6 stamped over the 7 or vice versa
    1744
    7-96
    1 1
    From the ground control, everything seems to work OK
    From the basket, the engine can be started and stopped as normal
    The foot control seems to work OK; i have had it to pieces and tested it, it has power
    The Swing, Main lift, Tower lift and the drive, don’t work.
    The High engine, Pump volume, Wheel speed are not getting any power, so don’t work.
    The rotate doesn’t work
    The Main telescopic and the steering work OK
    Any help would be appreciated
     
  3. willie59

    willie59 Super Moderator

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    Welcome to HEF knares. :drinkup

    I think we should move your posts to a new thread that's all yours. If you're ok with that I'll take care of that for you. I'll wait for you to respond back here before I do that, then I'll move your posts and delete my reply. Let me know. :)
     
  4. knares

    knares Member

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    yes OK
     
  5. knares

    knares Member

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    thanks
     
  6. willie59

    willie59 Super Moderator

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    Done. :drinkup
     
  7. willie59

    willie59 Super Moderator

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    I don't know what's up with the differences you see in your diagrams compared to the machine you have, perhaps something to do with an Australian version? I don't know if there's a difference with a North America and an Aussie version myself. As for serial number, the North American JLG boom lifts start with 03000, then the s/n, like 0300021445, maybe they do it different for the machine down under. Aside from that, sounds like you've go some testing to do. All functions work from lower controls. Swing, boom lift, tower lift, and drive does not work from upper controls, boom telescope and steer does work from upper controls. I take it swing, boom lift, tower lift, and drive are all proportional controls? If yes, are these controlled by PQ controllers?

    BTW, again, I can't verify on an Aussie version, but on JLG machines of that vintage, as far as the N America machines are concerned, JLG stamped the s/n in the lower frame. I can't recall for sure where they stamped it on the 45HA, and sometimes after a machine has had a few freshen up paint jobs it hides this stamped number. Just saying look the lower machine frame over real good for a stamped number.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2016
  8. knares

    knares Member

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    I take it swing, boom lift, tower lift, and drive are all proportional controls? If yes, are these controlled by PQ controllers?
    yes i do belive they are
    i could be reading the wireing diagram wrong.
    In one diagram which i got from the agent, it shows 5 wires going to the PQ controller, in another, which I downloaded from the net, it shows 6 and in a manual i got from Canada it shows 7.
    My machine has 7 but it differs in other ways
     
  9. willie59

    willie59 Super Moderator

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    I don't have a pic handy of the 45HA upper controls, but this is a pic of the 40H upper controls, kinda give you a look of the PQ controllers for the proportional functions.



    JLG 40H platform decal plate.jpg



    I'm fixin to hit the rack here, but I'll look into this tomorrow, see if we can figure out a way to sort through the wires in a way that we're communicating from the same page.
     
  10. knares

    knares Member

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    yes, they are the same type of controls

    Those numbers i gave must have meant something else

    Just saying look the lower machine frame over real good for a stamped number. Looked everywhere, couldn’t find it, found it now

    Serial no 038038 0300027513
    year 1997
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2016
  11. knares

    knares Member

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    I don’t know if it is being intermittent again but some things are working, i haven’t tried the drive yet, i have to change the caps round.
    The main lift, swing and the tower lift is working.
    I disconnected what i think is the level control and those things worked, i reconnected it and they still worked.
    At the moment the motor is running fast and won’t slow down
     
  12. willie59

    willie59 Super Moderator

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    Drat, I forgot to ask, is this a Ford gas engine or a Deutz diesel?

    Good to hear you found the serial number, some times that's important for ordering parts.

    Intermittent problems can be tough to troubleshoot. In your case, since all the functions work fine from the lower controls, but are problematic at the upper controls, the first thing you need to do is check voltage at the upper controls. If you get excessive voltage drop from bad wiring or bad connections, by the time you send a voltage signal back down the boom it's dropped off so much it's insufficient to power up solenoid valves.

    Assuming it's still wired up using the original JLG colors, the main power should come to the platform on an 12 gauge orange wire at terminal 34. The power then goes through the E stop switch, then to the circuit breaker. Power splits off at circuit breaker, sends ignition power back to lower on blue wire terminal 33, and it sends power to the foot switch via orange wire. Very important, if you have good 12 volt on the orange wire going to foot switch, when you step on the pedal, you should now have good 12 volt on the red wire going to terminal 37.
     
  13. knares

    knares Member

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    Thanks for your comments willie
    You have now got me thinking about voltage drop.
    deutz diesel
    This morning, i am back to where i was before, except that the engine is running at high revs.
    Yesterday when things were working, i pushed forward the High engine, pump volume and wheel speed switches, nothing happened, then i operated the drive lever and the engine went to high revs
    It didn’t drive because i had the caps off the drives, now it is staying at high revs.
    However now it is running at high revs, when i operate the Tower lift lever, i can feel it kick.
    If i operate it say 15 times, it lifts about 2 inches, there is a point, about a quarter of the travel up where it lifts, i can’t hold it in that position, i only get it as it goes through that point.
    It lowers down normal
    I was thinking it might be a faulty switch and i would think there is system where you cannot operate two switches at once, so this might be affecting the other switches, making them in operative.
    Now you mention voltage drop, that might be why i cant hold it in that position where it works.
    I will check the points you mentioned while holding the lever in the lift position
     
  14. knares

    knares Member

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    Hi again
    There are no terminals 31 to 36 inclusive, no 37 is black, no 38 is the red one, 14.19v, and pedal pressed 14. 19v.
    The voltage to the control on most wires is 13.8v
    The orange wire has 3.25v when the lever is in the up position, 0 in any other position, yellow and black on the switch
    The brown wire has 3.25v when the lever is in the down position, 0 in any other position, white and red on the switch
    the grey wire has 0v any position, white and grey on the switch
    the black 0v
    thanks
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2016
  15. willie59

    willie59 Super Moderator

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    Ok, I'm not sure I'm going to be able to help because the way your machine is wired up, it's not matching the diagrams for that machine and therefore it's going to be difficult at best for us to get on the same page. Perhaps and Aussie machine is wired different? Perhaps it was simply wired different by a previous owner who either didn't have the diagrams or didn't care about it being proper. I just don't know in either of those cases. But if that platform box resembles what I see on the diagrams, with ignition on and you step on the foot pedal, you should have nominal 12V on the center terminals of the toggle switches, and the same on terminal 3 of all of the PQ controller circuit cards. If you don't have 12V at those points you're going to have problems with operations.
     
  16. knares

    knares Member

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    it has taken me a week to work out which pin is no three, the connector has three rows of three pins, no3 is the middle pin, i think.
    Terminal 3 on all of the PQ controller has no power.
    we are in aprill and in april we have april showers, love it but three times to day i have got wet
     
  17. willie59

    willie59 Super Moderator

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    Let's try this, the way the PQ controllers "should" be wired:

    Terminal 1: Wht/Brn, Ground circuit for the controllers
    Terminal 3: Wht/Yel, 12V power supply to PQ controllers and all toggle switches, should power up when you step on foot switch
    Terminals 5 & 6: colors vary, Terminals that control a particular function, i.e., swing controller, terminal 5 is swing left output, terminal 6 is swing right output
    Terminal 7: Gry/Wht, Power input from creep switch on terminal 7 puts controller in creep mode, reduces controller output for slow operating speeds

    The drive controller should have an additional connection to terminal 2, Wht/Yel wire. That terminal is a power output terminal when the controller is rocked off center, being operated, it sends power to the toggles for Wheel Motor Speed, Pump Volume, and Hi Engine (throttle).
     
  18. knares

    knares Member

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    Hi,
    i had no 3 pin wrong, so i am still not sure
    I have no white and yellow wires
    I have power to a pin on all the PQ controllers
    The main lift, swing and tower lift are the same supply, white and blue wire
    The drive supply is a white and red wire
    The rocker switches, steer etc all have power
    The toggle switches, engine speed etc, have no power but as i think as you say they only get power when the drive control is actuated
    Question
    Is there only one power wire going to each PQ controller.
    I would have thought that there would be some sort of circuit that, when any one PQ was being used, the others would be disabled, i can see that when operating the drive control but not in the others.
    I have searched the net for a diagram on these PQ controls, no luck
    If a PQ unit was faulty, would it disable the other PQ units and stop them from operating
    I have contacted my local agent about having them tested but they tell me they have no way of testing them.
    At the end of the day, whatever is the fault, it must be common to the PQs as they are the only things not working
    do you know the location of relays no R2 and R3
    thanks again
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2016
  19. willie59

    willie59 Super Moderator

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    I can see with the way your machine is wired it's going to be awful tough for me to help, just no way we know we're on the same page. I assume one of two things, 1) an OZ JLG is wired different than a North America machine, or 2) someone in the past re-wired the machine but didn't have access to the JLG drawings and the color coded wires that JLG uses. I wonder if you could re-wire your box according to the diagrams available in the manuals? Even if you have to use different color coded wires, at least use the diagrams as a map.

    The PQ controllers should share the same power source, and you can operate them simultaneously, that's normal operation. Likewise, if one controller goes down, it doesn't affect the others, their outputs are independent.

    The R1, R2, and R3 are 14 terminal ice cube relays in the lower control box. They look different compared to the Bosch 5 terminal black cube relays in the lower box.
     
  20. knares

    knares Member

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    Thanks for that info will ii have been trying to find that relay for some time
    I understand your thoughts on the fact that you can’t help me as we don’t know if we are on the same page but your thoughts and comments are valuable to me and sometimes send me off in another direction or at least confirm my thoughts
    I have found a diagram of the PQ unit, its not much good to me as i don’t understand it but it dose have a diagram of the plug and each pin is numbered.
    So i know which pin is No 3 and No3 is the one with the power.