JD 672CH error code

[Ruahines]

We inherited one of these which has a starting issue. Winds over fine but won't fire. A tiny whiff of engine start and off it goes and runs fine. I suspect an issue with the relief on the fuel rail.
Error code F418 on the console but I have no manuals, diagnostics at all. We are a long way from anywhere so it will be one of those diagnose by elimination things.
Any help will be gratefully accepted.
The grader used to start without assistance but it always sounded as though it was winding up rather than a throaty roar. Once going it sounds fine.
Merry Christmas to all

 

[mg2361]

F418 is Water in Fuel Voltage High. That translates to an open wire, open sensor or an unplugged sensor. See if there are other codes using the attached method.

 

[Ruahines]

Much appreciated .
Night time here at present and still 38 degrees Celsius!
I will look at it tomorrow after I have done the stuff I have scheduled before it gets too hot

 

[Ruahines]

OK I got the codes eventually, that is a finicky procedure!
Using the instructions the engine codes are
468,429,427,487,465,418,450,419,473,437,467,463,430,401 and 431. That is the order in which they appeared so I am guessing that F468 is the most recent?

 

[mg2361]

Those are all engine codes and yes, start at the first ones. The first four are all fuel rail pressure related (see attached). Check your fuel supply. Change your fuel filters (inspect contents as well). Make sure you have a good low fuel pressure supply. Acquire a fuel pressure gauge and make sure your low system pressure measured at the final fuel filter is 4-6 psi (27-41 kPa). If all is good you may be looking at a rail pressure sensor ($300) or a suction control valve ($300-$500) on the high pressure pump. You need the John Deere Service Advisor program or an oscilloscope to troubleshoot those components.

 

[Ruahines]

I need new glasses! I went outside and looked at the filters. It has only done 160 hours since they were fitted but they were fitted in 2013! When it first arrived I did a walkaround and checked the state of everything, the hours are on all filters and so is the date.
I rang the guy who sold it to the boss and it apparently belonged to a local council who switched to contractors. They had everything serviced and then stored in sheds.
The grease did look a little old but I thought nothing of it when every nipple took gease.
I have asked an associate who is going to Kalgoorlie tomorrow to pick up the filters from the agent and we will start there.
I have a little Vellerman pocket oscilloscope if needed but I suspect the filters will be the issue.
When the filters arrive I will post the result.

Many thanks for the code list as it will come in handy in the future. I have a bit of work ahead of me clearing all the codes that are stored so we can start from fresh.

 

[Ruahines]

I changed the filters. Primary was dirty with gunge, secondary was clean. I tapped them both out onto clean rags after draining on other rags. Primary had some dirt in it and definitely needed changing. Secondary showed no visible sign of any contamination. Checked fuel output at the pressure test point. I had to do it visually as my test guage hasn't been used in quite a while and is back in town somewhere. Strong pulse when using the primer pump, even flow and thumb test said good pressure. I realise that is a very subjective description but without a guage it is all I had to go on.
I bled the system through to the pump inlet using the primer.
Turned it on and cleared all the codes, wound it over and it reluctantly started, ran or a few seconds and then shut down. F429 and 468 showing. cleared them and retried, same result.
It still sounds as though it is winding up, almost like older diesels did when you hadn't fully pushed in the shutdown lever.
I unclipped all the plugs on the pump and the rail, cleaned with contact cleaner, dried with air and then reassembled. All looked ok with no signs of corrosion or the "green death " we get out here.
Retried starting and same results..
IS the oscilloscope test procedure for the pressure sensor and the suction control valve complex?
Is it possible the relief valve is giving issues?
There won't be a technician from Hitachi (JD agents) up our way until mid January according to the Shire foreman (they have JD graders).
Thanks in advance

 

[mg2361]

Sounds to me like you may have a suction control valve (SCV) problem. Very common on Tier 3 Deere engines. Has yours ever been replaced? Is it about 1.5 inches long or about 3 inches long? The newer style is the longer one. You can remove it to see if it sticking. To eliminate the rail relief just remove the fuel return line from the relief and crank and start the engine. If no fuel comes out then the relief is fine. Another thing to try but I do not usually recommend it is to unplug the suction control valve and see if it starts. If it does and stays running (it might be rough) then it is your suction control valve. I do not usually recommend that because that puts your fuel pump at full pressure (if the SCV moves that is) which means the rail relief will open and unfortunately it is a flip of the coin as to whether the relief is reusable after that. Most cases engine restart with SCV plugged back in will reset it but not always. Oscilloscope procedure a little too difficult to explain since it is something done with experience. Nothing available from Deere on that since Deere (Why??) does not support or advise the use of the scope for diagnostics. Frank Massey's Top Ten scope videos on YouTube has one on common rail testing (automotive) that might help.

 

[Ruahines]

SCV is about 3 inches all up so I guess it is the newer one. Appears to be fully functional with no sticking apparent. It engages for a few seconds when first powered up and then disengages. I activated it several times and it appears to be a smooth operation with no notching felt.
Re assemble and try to start. Same thing, winds over slowly fires up and then after a few seconds shuts down. Same error codes appear.
Possibly the sensor is failing/failed and message to the ECU is wrong, thus the shutdown over failed to develop pressure?
One other thing is that when it fires up it begins to "rattle" just before shutdown. A sound like ether gives or in a petrol would be pinking/pre ignition. It has done this since we had it although it was only or a few seconds and the cleared. It was on the list of things to check out but time seems to be a bit short these days.
The reason I was suspicious about the relief valve is I come from an automotive/petrol background and the rail relief is always the first thing to check.
Totally different systems and pressures but old habits take a lot of kicking.
Is the SCV working on PWM? We had a few issues with a dozer a couple of years ago that were proportional solenoid related.

 

[mg2361]

I'm a numbers guy and would like to make sure the low fuel pressure system is good so try to get a gauge hooked up. I attached the diagnostic procedures for the two codes. 94.17 code is a sensor code and the 1347.07 code is an SCV code (no you won't be replacing the ECU as the procedure says at the end). I have seen plenty of rail sensors go bad as well. Make sure you have good 5V reference, good ground (0.100V or less) and see if the signal changes when cranking. You may want to grab wires and wiggle while someone is cranking to make sure there isn't a connection issue. You can still check the rail relief (we have had our fair share of them going bad as well) like I mentioned in post 8. The rattle I would not be concerned about right now because if the ECU is getting erroneous pressure readings then the fuel control goes all over the place and can create noise. The SCV is PWM. You could measure the Hz (sorry no specs available) (or voltage, PWM would show as an average voltage measurement on a digital meter) at the solenoid to see if that changes while cranking. Still don't rule that out either. I have seen the new style fail as well even though they look OK and move freely. Unfortunately without the testing equipment it is a crap shoot that may involve a little guess work and parts replacement.

 

[Ruahines]

I have had to go to another site or a few days so I will check all those when i get back.
I really appreciate the efort you have put into this as it makes my job so much easier.
When I return I will get an assistant and do the wire wiggle and all the other things as well.
The 418 code hasn't reappeared since changing filters and cleaning plugs/connectors. There was a hint of corrosion on the female side of the connector so perhaps I need to recheck the other connectors as well.
I will report back in a few days.
Once again many thanks

 

[mg2361]

Here is a great video on basic oscilloscope tests of a Denso HPCR injection system.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6DBlbF42DE&list=PLp223_9_q4f_-nzDMEWuoS3Qdhgs0RAcq&index=4

 

[Ruahines]

I got back to the grader or a few minutes today. Cleaned and rechecked all the connectors, checked the wiring or cracks and did all the basics again. Pressure sensor connection had the tiniest bit of corrosion so cleaned and resealed. vigorously wobbled all connectors and rebled the system up to the HP pump. Someone else must have needed my fuel pressure gauge more than I do as it and a couple of other things have gone. Bastards! I have another one on the way early next week. Living out here in the outback means we have to learn how to wait.
Anyway hit the starter and it fired up and ran a little rough and then started to idle away happily. New fault has appeared, the HFWD charge warning lamp is on!
However the machine could be stopped and restarted several times and then back to won't start.
Only code showing is F429 so I am going to run with your first diagnosis and say the low pressure side is too low. We may have had some dirty fuel put in it but nothing else is showing signs of that ( we have some common rail Hiluxes which are fairly fussy about their fuel and they are fine) so it is more likely crap in the tank or the supply pump is tired. I have an electric delivery pump which I will install in the system and see what happens. I will also pull the primary filter and inspect it. Then i have to work out the charge pump issue. At least my life isn't boring. Had to change a tyre on the low loader today. 38 degrees celcius and lying in the hot red dust to get the jack underneath. Retirement looks real good sometimes!

 

[mg2361]

You need to lock up that fuel gauge...LOL...Good job on your thoroughness. You are probably on the right track with the fuel supply. Maybe run a fuel line from a bucket to the fuel pump (or through your separate fuel pump) to eliminate the suction side since you are without a gauge. F429 is the 94.17 procedure in post 10. I'll take the 38 deg C over the 4 deg C and rain we have here.... Maybe.

 

[rsherril]

Had a similar problem on an older JD. Bad wire to the fuel shut off solinoid.

 

[Ruahines]

OK I am back on the case. Was sent to another site for a while and borrowed a guage while there. 0-100 psi which is too big but it was available. Barely moved the needle so I think the initial diagnosis of pump pressure has some serious merit. I rang the Hitachi parts people (agents or JD here in the West Ozzie area) and was pleasantly surprised at the price of a new mechanical pump. $130 Ozzie. Picked it up today while we were down in Kalgoorlie and will get it fitted some time in the next week. Will keep you posted.

 

[Ruahines]

Update. Changed pump and primary filter while I was at it. We found the box of bits that came with the machine and there were a dozen primary filters in it. Perhaps this is an ongoing problem. So I got my son to blow the line back to the tank when he changed the filter.
The machine worked ok but still at times would not start. Yesterday I was working the access road and loaded up the blade in a bad spot. The bloody thing stalled and then would not start. I am sitting in a 35 degree day, out of two way range, out of phone range and waiting for the geos to come past later in the day, so I did some thinking and pulled the SCV. Fortunately the isolator switch is right beside the SCV, so I connected it and turned on the isolator. Zip. Wobbled the connection and still zip, turned off the isolator and reset and suddenly the SCV solenoid enabled. Retest after retest worked fine until it decided to fail again.
Re installed and the beast roared into life and I finished the road to the best of my limited ability. I did however cutback on how much I was pulling across to prevent the embarrassment of stalling again.
So it appears the SCV has an intermittent issue. I will source a replacement and fit it when time permits.
The HFWD charge pressure issue appears to be a sensor problem. We have pressure at the HFWD drive motor test ports at the gooseneck so in the interim the sensor is unplugged.
I will report back when the SCV is replaced.

 

[mg2361]

Isolator?

 

[Ruahines]

battery isolator. Switch between earth and battery negative on the LH battery.
Could be Southern hemisphere terminology.

 

[Ruahines]

SCV was replaced and all appears to be well, apart from the bank balance. $630 plus tax, plus freight. All up almost $800 ozzie dollars.
The beast sounds different when it starts and is better able to handle loading up the blade.
Greatly appreciate all the help.