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JD 450C

PNW1020D

Active Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2019
Messages
37
Location
Washington
Hey all.

Hope everyone is doing well with what is going on, etc.

With that being said, here is my equipment update. Not so much for my business plan, but for the family farm, and who knows really.

I have the chance to get this for free. I know free doesn't mean take it, but any knowledge or guidance would be greatly appreciated. Brutally honest, things to look for, and test? The holy internet say this thing weighs almost 18k? Is that true?

From my research, this is what I have heard about these old girls but I am no expert!!! Clearly... :)

1. Horrible to work on. Others have said smurfs must have built these at the factory due to their unfriendly working environments.
2.Transmission case cracks can happen due to their poor structural design.
3.Wet clutches. If glazed over it can be quite expensive and labor intensive to repair.
4. This is a "C" model, so it should have a standard clutch and mechanical transmission. I read about some "shift on the fly models" being troublesome and expensive to fix?
5. As I have shown, I have a 1020D with a 3 cylinder diesel, and this old thing has essentially the exact same motor, but a 4 cylinder. Same as the big big brother of my 1020D, the 4020, and I am sure many other john applications.

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hosspuller

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2014
Messages
1,869
Location
North Carolina
At least the old girl :) doesn't have a zillion and one, sensors, connectors and wire harnesses :confused:to confuse and confound you. With a CPU or two along side o_O to humble and scorn you as well. :(
 

redneckracin

Senior Member
Joined
May 19, 2010
Messages
574
Location
Western PA
Occupation
Civil Engineer
I put some hours into a straight 550 John deere and a few more in the seat. It is a handy size machine. I think you are a bit heavy on the weight though. Non current John deere says 14,400 lbs straight from their website.
https://www.deere.com/en/dozers/non-current-models/

1. Not great, not horrible. Sometimes you may have to move some things to get to what you want, just like anything.
2. I believe this is true. I think the bolts have tendency to back out and cracks can happen. I think that should have a H-L-R transmission. You can shift the ranges on the fly. Shifting gears 1-4 though I don't think you can. the clutch must be used.
2B. The cross bar is known for bolts being lost/broken and no being replaced or having been welded and causes a structural failure. All 6 bolts in the track frame and the 3 bolts into the frame rails should be present.
3.Probably. I don't know much about them.
4. I believe repairs are expensive on those transmissions.

One thing to note, those track pads look like they are very worn down. I would try and figure out some measurements on them and either plan on replacing the pads or welding on some grouser bars, your choice. One good thing, parts are still available. I was able to get a cutting edge, roller seal kits, and an idler from Mother Deere. Parts may be a bit pricey.
 

Mattjohndeere2

Active Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2019
Messages
39
Location
Rome NY
Does that have a winch on the rear? Looking at track tension and adjusters the UC isn't completely worn out yet. How many hours on the hour meter?

If it's got a winch and your within 10 hours of central new York I'll come and get it!
 

PNW1020D

Active Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2019
Messages
37
Location
Washington
Thank you for the replies everyone. I really appreciate the input. I was about to make it out there this weekend, and get the dozer loaded up and home. Supposedly the thing ran 3 or so years ago, and was parked there. Hasn't moved since.

"redneckracin", thank you very much for the specific answers. Can you please do me a favor, and tell me where this area is, "2B. The cross bar is known for bolts being lost/broken and no being replaced or having been welded and causes a structural failure. All 6 bolts in the track frame and the 3 bolts into the frame rails should be present." I would like to look this area over, or take some photos for ya, so I can understand what you are referencing.

Also, so today when I was just using the machine for the first time after getting it going, I would push the clutch in, and as you said, select lets says range 1. I would then keep the clutch pedal pressed in, and would shift the other lever into "L". The machine would of could move forward once I let the clutch pedal out. I would then do the same thing to shift the dozer into reverse. Pressing the clutch pedal down, etc. So I don't need to do that if I am only shifting the once lever from "H", "L", "R"?


After getting the thing home, I started to look it over. Check the fluids, etc. After some messing around, I was able to get it started, and it moved. The blade functioned as it should, and the thing moved through all gears in both directions. I was really surprised by how well and easily the machine turned left and right. The machine didn't bog down, or excessively load. I would move each steering clutch handle, in both forward and reverse, and it felt normal. But I don't know??? I had a Chinese Nortrack dozer with a Bradco backhoe attachment 3-4 years ago (the dozer was an absolute pile of crap), and I learned steering clutch and brake band adjustments are really critical to making a dozer work like it should. Is this the same for this 450C?

First thing I had to do was hot wire the injection pump control wire, or solenoid? wire. The dozer's push button start is shot, and the wire that sends 12v to the injection pump was cut. I tore into the dash, and will need to properly re-wire the injection pump, and install multiple new gauges, and a new push button start. It seems that the injection pump signal wire from the factory was wired into the push button start circuit?

The clutch was a bit frozen, but it was able to free itself after a couple of minutes.


The thing needs a cleaning really bad
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and I would like to get some needed maintenance in. There is some rust, but nothing that seems to be structural. The arm rest cushions and seat are toast, just completely rusted gone. The v-belt is shot, exhaust manifold has a pinhole in it. I am sure the turbo has seen better days, and it shows plenty of hydraulic drips. So, what would you all recommend? I am going to order the manuals this week.

Do all John Deere 350/450 dozers come with a turbo? Or was it a later thing added with like the B or C series? I was surprised to see the little snail tucked up under the hood???

Final drive gear oil? I would think there would be just a large Allen plug to drain and another to fill? 90WT?
Is there a hydraulic oil sump screen? and screw on filter? I see a screw on canister filter way up front on the machine? Like in front of the radiator?
mwsOZq.jpg

What other type of fluids/gear cases should be looked at? Etc.? I will probably flush the coolant, replace the thermostat.

Where is the fuel filter? I see this black box looking thing that is on the passenger side of the machine, and has fuel lines that enter/exit it?

Sorry for all the rambling, but any help is greatly appreciated. I have a feeling I am going to be tearing this thing down a bit to clean it, and clean it, and clean it.
 
Last edited:

mg2361

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2016
Messages
5,060
Location
Pennsylvania
Occupation
Equipment Mechanic
I learned steering clutch and brake band adjustments are really critical to making a dozer work like it should. Is this the same for this 450C?

Yes, make sure to follow the service manual instructions. Just as important if not more important on those machines is to make sure your engine/hydraulic clutch adjustment is correct. Yes I said that correctly. The engine clutch also has a pressure adjustment that is critical to the performance of the powertrain. Follow the instructions in the manual for that adjustment to the letter.

Do all John Deere 350/450 dozers come with a turbo?

450 yes, 350 no.

Final drive gear oil? I would think there would be just a large Allen plug to drain and another to fill? 90WT?

Drain plug at the bottom inside (facing center of machine) of final drive pan. Fill plug on the inside of the main final drive haousing further up also facing the center of the machine. Uses Hygard oil in the final drives.

What other type of fluids/gear cases should be looked at?

Hygard in the transmission as well. Suction screen bottom right side of the transmission should be removed, inspected and cleaned. The filter in front of the radiator is for the transmission. Hydraulic filter is inside the reservoir on earlier serial numbered machines and above the reservoir on later machines (under left arm rest).

I will probably flush the coolant

Definitely, and DO NOT use an automotive antifreeze. Make sure you use a diesel engine antifreeze designed for piston liners.

Where is the fuel filter?

Right side of the engine, yes it is square and should be glass.

450C Fuel filter.png
 

PNW1020D

Active Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2019
Messages
37
Location
Washington
mg2361!!! Thank you. I appreciate the feedback. I have yet to get to the final drives and the adjustments, but I will. Still don't have the manuals, but they are on the way. I have done a lot more research, and I am getting more and more educated on the machine.

This is where I am at right now. plan is to tear the thing down, fix and maintain what needs to be done. Clean, and clean, and clean, then post it up for sale. I plan to leave the undercarriage alone. Maybe do the upper idlers, track adjustment, etc.

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redneckracin

Senior Member
Joined
May 19, 2010
Messages
574
Location
Western PA
Occupation
Civil Engineer
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That is the cross bar, and the 3 dots are the three outside bolts, there are three more on the inside of the track frame. Follow that bar up to the rail on the side of the machine and there should be 3 more bolts there!
 

PNW1020D

Active Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2019
Messages
37
Location
Washington
Thanks for getting back to me redneckracin. I have confirmed that all 12 bolts are in fact installed. They seem to be in decent shape too. Heads still intact and looking solid.

I have gone about going deeper into the machine. Cleaning and cleaning. I plan to drop the pan and redo the gasket, and remove the rocker cover and replace that gasket as well. I'll do the valve adjustment while I am in there.

I also went about removing the fuel tank, as the diesel that was in the machine literally smelled like paint thinner? I mean strong strong smelling stuff. I put a mask on it was so intense. Now that I have drained the fuel, and removed the tank, it seems I have opened a can of worms....as the tank is rusty, and I would like to fix it. What do you all think? Is it even worth my time as I am just trying to flip this machine? I read about this stuff called "red kote" that many people like?

I have also gone about draining the oil, and removing the filter. I have drained both final drives as well. It is odd/incorrect that both the engine oil filter, and the hydraulic oil filter (in front of radiator/oil cooler) on the dozer are the same JD part #?

And here are some progress photos.

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redneckracin

Senior Member
Joined
May 19, 2010
Messages
574
Location
Western PA
Occupation
Civil Engineer
I'm not as familiar with the 450c, but I'm pretty sure the hydraulic filter on the 550 is under the seat and definitely a different part number. Are you using jdparts.com?
 

Orest Anhel

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2018
Messages
53
Location
Dease Lake BC
Oil filter in front of the radiator is the transmission oil filter. Depending on ser# the hydraulic filter will be in the hydraulic tank accessed through the cover plate on top of hydraulic tank or an external filter in hydraulic compartment. Yes trans and engine oil filter are the same. If it has a winch the winch filter is the same as well. Take a good look where the side frames bolt on to the steering clutch housings as this is a common problem area. Also should be 2 large bolts on each side that go through side frames into engine clutch housing. These are often broken or missing or the bosses they bolt into on the clutch housing are broken or stripped. Pulling floor boards will give you a good view of engine clutch housing. Hydraulic drive shaft failure is pretty common. Just replaced mine with after market from Amazon
 

PNW1020D

Active Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2019
Messages
37
Location
Washington
Thank you very much redneckracin. I didn't check JD parts, but I have been utilizing it as I tear this thing down. Should have checked before I even asked the question...sorry about that.

Orest Anhel!!! Thank you so much!!! Confirmed that the two filters are the same part# as redneckracin said to check JD parts. Napa also gave me the same filters for both, so I am good to go on that front.

I went about draining all of the hydraulic/transmission fluid. It was pretty scary looking, very milky. My dozer had the hydraulic filter located in the hydraulic tank. I was about to remove it, and will replace it. I was also able remove the transmission suction screen/filter. I cleaned it with diesel/de-greaser, and it looks to be in good structural shape as all the webbing is intact, etc.

I then went about removing the supply and return lines that route from the hydraulic tank to the pump, so I could drop the oil pan for inspection, and to replace the pan gasket. Here is what the bottom end looks like. I see zero signs of coolant leaking past the liner o-ring packing(s), and the two balancing shafts have zero play in them (meaning I just grabbed them and yanked/pushed on them).
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Orest Anhel, when you say "Hydraulic drive shaft failure is pretty common", do you mean this shaft? From crank pulley to front hydraulic pump? This is what mine looks like. If this is what you are referencing, what breaks? Or what do I need to look for? Why did you have to replace yours?
KsUTYt.jpg


Thanks for all the help and guidance everyone!!! I really appreciate it. Def. more questions to follow o_O:)


https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/members/orest-anhel.71528/
 

Orest Anhel

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2018
Messages
53
Location
Dease Lake BC
I replaced all the hydraulic drive pieces ou have in the photo. The piece that bolts on to the crank pulley was stripped, the splined shaft had big wear steps in it as did internal splines on the coupler. Got all of the pieces for around $200 on eBay.
 

Local

Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2021
Messages
17
Location
Hawaii
Aloha , Great information and thanks for taking all those pictures to alleviate any confusing . I just bought a 450 for 10K , had a friend on that Island to go and check it out , he said it was awesome , clean and great . I finally got it shipped to my Island aprox 31/2 weeks later waiting for barge space . I was so excited .
It has issues , all the bolts on the cross bar are stretched , stressed and rusted pretty bad . It moves around around alot .
It stopped moving .. The machine moved fine loading and unloading . I used the following day 4/1/2021 and it worked great , pushed better than expected . Hydraulics strong and responsive . Next day . Wouldn't move . Check trans oil from dipstick under seat . After 5 to 15 minutes of shifting back and forth etc . I Noticed it moved started to move better in reverse , then started moving in forward . Pushed more dirt , rock etc , strong no problems . day 3 wouldn't move again .... Eventually much slower than before would only go into high range . I drained trans and checked the filter . Filter is good and the large screen filter on right side of trans with 3 bolts is clean . Drained 10 Gallons.
I am hoping it's a linkage problem from looking at the parts manual for the HL-R . It could bee so worn that it not making full travel ... hopefully .
I will check the linkage on the left side trans direct from HL-R to see if it has proper movement . This seems to be a issue with these older machines and of course the wear and tear . The hobbs meter is very cloudy but I could make out the numbers . It says 9886.5 ... I almost S*** but maybe it doesn't have that many hours on it . Yeah Right .... and it doesnt work any more . I am supposedly the 3rd owner . The last guy who owned it bought from his uncle who purchased it new .... supposedly .
Any way . I will post my findings . Any help and guidance will be appreciated. Also noticed the top case on the hydraulic clutch area under the seat leaks a fair amount aprox 15 drops per minute . I also have a 410B with the same 4219 engine 65 horse . I am impressed at the work load these little monsters can do .
Sorry to ramble , first posing , excited to tyalk direct to others who have experience with these machines . All help will be appreciated .
 

mg2361

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2016
Messages
5,060
Location
Pennsylvania
Occupation
Equipment Mechanic
Welcome to HEF Local;)!

Aloha! Maybe post some pics of your new toy. We love pictures:D

When you have specific questions please start a new thread.
 

PNW1020D

Active Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2019
Messages
37
Location
Washington
Holy hell time passes by!!!

Ok, here is an update on the old pile and some more questions of course.

Check out my part #1 video on Youtube if you want (Video is old).

STATUS UPDATE:
1) Engine oil pan gasket replaced
2) Front hydraulic pump return and supply lines removed, cleaned, replaced sections as needed
3) Trans sump screen filter element removed, cleaned, new o-rings and gasket installed. Rewired the pyro for the trans (wire was just cut)
4) Fuel tank removed, cleaned, pressure tested, and re-sealed with "Red Kote" and reinstalled
5) Radiator re-cored, hydraulic cooler cleaned, pressure tested, painted for looks core was good. Reinstalled
6) New air filter, fuel filter, engine oil filter, and both hydraulic filters replaced (front trans and in tank)
7) All new hydraulic lines (boom, angle, and tilt cylinders)
8) Re-built tilt cylinder (barrel re-honed, piston polished, seals, packings, etc.)
9) New water pump gaskets (backing plate and pump gasket), new thermostat and gaskets (head and thermostat housing)
10) New v-belt
11) New upper and lower radiator hoses
12) New exhaust manifold and gaskets
13) New Turbo (Airesearch AR70439)
14) New "adapter" for turbo to exhaust
15) New seat back/bottom and armrests

Still lots left to do before I put it up for sale.
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QUESTIONS:

1) This picture would lead me to believe my dozer has had the "common sump" conversion done to it? Correct? Does that mean I can just take my 12 gallons of hydraulic/transmission fluid and pour it into the transmission dipstick/filler hole? Or do I have to "fill" it in other areas? I have only drained the final drives (allen on each side) and the main transmission bolt
MJkvxj.jpg


2) Final Drive oil change. mg2361 lined me out already, but I just want to make sure I get it. The same fluid goes into the final drives as the steering compartments and the transmission itself (Hygard J20A/C spec)? I have like 20 gallons of the same fluid o_O

3) The wiring has been, well....lots of work. I finally found my serial # and have pretty much dialed in the entire cluster, and everything down stream of the "main wiring plug connector". The technical manual has been really helpful in terms of understanding what is going on. Here is my question...someone cut the wire on the "engine wiring harness" that goes to the injection pump. I was just going to splice the wire and call it good but the thing is the wire terminal in the plastic connector is loose. HOW DO I REMOVE THE WIRE FROM THE PLASTIC CONNECTOR BODY? Most harnesses you just push a flat head screw driver into the connector and the wire terminal will "pop" loose...this isn't happening and I don't want to break the plastic connector body. A whole new harness is like 300 bucks :mad:
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4) Gauges. Where the hell do I get new gauges? JD wants like 500 bucks for a new oil pressure gauge and another 500 for a tach!!! I found a used tach, water temp gauge, push button start but that is it (all ordered and on the way). I still need the trans temp, oil pressure, and alternator gauge.
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Thanks in advance everyone. Def. more questions to follow, specifically on my alternator (what do I have, what do I need) and more wiring.
 

mg2361

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2016
Messages
5,060
Location
Pennsylvania
Occupation
Equipment Mechanic
This picture would lead me to believe my dozer has had the "common sump" conversion done to it?

No such thing as a common sump conversion. 4 compartments, Hydraulic, transmission and 2 final drives.

The same fluid goes into the final drives as the steering compartments and the transmission itself

Transmission, hydraulics and final drives all use Hygard.

HOW DO I REMOVE THE WIRE FROM THE PLASTIC CONNECTOR BODY?

Terminal.png
 

77Ford

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2021
Messages
90
Location
Missouri
I'm not sure you can tell the common sump conversion (it only ties the steering clutch housing's to the transmission) has been done from the outside. It's all internal, if they did it correctly the fill plugs in the side are suppose to be sealed with lock tight and not removable but I think people still can force there way past them. The service manual walks thru the conversion Section 40-15-5.

From your serial number you're a 79 model which explains why you have the turbo, I thought I read someone where they had an idea when the common sump was done from the factory. I'll try and find that.
 
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PNW1020D

Active Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2019
Messages
37
Location
Washington
Thank you so much guys :D

Ok, got it on the fluid type for all those items. Thank you very much mg2361. Also, thank you so much in terms of the wire terminal removal. I will try that when I get home today after work. That is the last wire I need to splice down stream of the main wiring harness connector.

Thank you very much 77Ford for the response. Here are the photos from my manual.
oxRibD.jpg

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I have also read that the common sump conversion came from the factory in later models. All the forum threads I have read list people with model years 75/76 asking about the conversion so I am thinking mine was done at the factory. I also thought my machine had it done becasue of item #8 shown in Fig. 5. My dozer looks to have plugs installed? What does a "pipe plug breather" look like vs. just a plug?

So can I just add fluid into the trans through the dipstick/filler neck to fill both the steering clutches and the transmission itself? Or do I need to fill the steering compartments separately?
 
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