JD 410D electrical issues

[Ryan 23]

I have a JD 410D (unknown year) that is having electrical issues, I'm not getting power to a lot of places, like lights, heater, wipers, ect. I checked all the fuses and they look fine and am getting power to them. this is my first piece of equipment so any kind of help would be appreciated!!

 

[Delmer]

JD's usually have an accessory relay under the "console" on the right, toward the back. There's two identical relays, one is the start relay and one is the accessory relay. Easy enough to tell apart by checking wire numbers, or listening to which one clicks when. That is when you start it with the small terminal removed at the solenoid to be able to hear the click, and not start the engine.

 

[Ryan 23]

shouldnt I be able to switch them to see if they work?

 

[Delmer]

I suppose? If I remember right, they're not the plug in style like an automotive fuse box with identical relays, they're screw terminals and screwed in place. I'd take a multimeter and check the input and output to figure out if the accessory relay is working. You could remove the input or output of the start relay to check it to see how they're supposed to work. Little wires control the big wires, pretty simple.

 

[Ryan 23]

ok, I dont see any screw terminals, I saw some black square relays, once it gets light enough and I get a break in the rain, I will go get a picture and post it if that will help.

 

[Delmer]

OK, I have a C, so your's might be different. I can probably give a better guess with a picture.

 

[Ryan 23]

this is the fuse panel, I have checked all the blade fuses and they are all good. not sure how to check the black ones

 

[Delmer]

RE68327 - Deere Relay

Search "jd 410d accessory relay" that number is what comes up with a diagram of the location. It will be under the gauges and switches, but it's not the same one I was thinking of. It's mounted on or next to the logic module. Once you find it, it should be easy to test, and proceed from there.

Those black relays are not the accessory relay that I'm thinking of, one might be the start relay? you can swap those around, or remove one and see what doesn't work with it removed. JD used an accessory relay that shut all power off except the line to the alternator,and the line to the ignition switch, the ignition switch turned on the accessory relay, the injection pump, and the start relay.

 

[Ryan 23]

ok, I got the panel out, is it round and about 2 inches long with a couple wires coming off it?

 

[Delmer]

Mine on a "C" is round and 2" or so, the drawing I saw for a D was odd shaped and right next to the logic module. Mine has two medium size terminals, and one or two small wires. One of the small wires might go to ground if there's two, the other would be the hot from the ignition switch.

 

[Ryan 23]

this is whats in there... when I turn the key I heard it clunk.

 

[Delmer]

Did it clunk at accessory or start position on the ignition switch? If it clunks at acc, then check the continuity or volt drop across the big terminals with the key at acc.

 

[Ryan 23]

it clunked at accessory, I checked for voltage drop. it went from 12.66 to 12.61.

 

[Delmer]

You get 12V on each of the big terminals, and you said you get voltage to the fuses (I overlooked that). I led you on a wild goose chase.

Is this a new machine to you? or a new problem on an old machine to you?

I guess you'll have to follow the voltage, it seems odd that you'd have all that stuff go out with the accessory relay and fuses both having power. Maybe a bad ground, or wiring harness connector? Follow the wires to the voltage at each of the accessories, and/or run them on a line direct from the battery, check the bulbs for continuity etc.

 

[Ryan 23]

I get voltage when I go from one big terminal to the other with the leads on my multimeter . This is a new machine to me, I've never ran it before this year.

 

[Delmer]

it clunked at accessory, I checked for voltage drop. it went from 12.66 to 12.61.

Do you mean you had 12.66 on one big terminal and 12.61 on the other big terminal? How about if you turn on the lights? does the voltage stay the same?


That round accessory relay is the first place that the battery voltage comes into the cab, it goes to one big terminal, and has another wire on that terminal that goes to the key switch, the key switch sends power back to the accessory relay when it's turned to the the acc position, that power closes the accessory relay and turns on the power to the other big terminal and to all of the accessories. So you should have voltage across the big terminals with the key off, and voltage at both big terminals with the key in acc (but not voltage across them).

You already said you have voltage at the fuses, which should mean the acc relay is working, and all the grounds are to the chassis IIRC. Nothing makes sense to me. The part we might be missing is having a couple accessories on when you're taking electrical measurements.

If you have all of the accessories "on" and power to the fuses, then check for power at the accessories themselves. At some point the accessories are burned out, or the ground is doing something really wierd. If this was a car, then the ground from the wiring harness would be suspect, but I don't think there are grounds in this wiring harness, the cab is the ground, it MIGHT be possible that the cab is not grounded? Then with the accessories "on" you'd have voltage from the cab to the frame or negative battery terminal.

Basically that's all a lot of speculation because I'm not there to take a few volt readings, and I can't trust yours because they don't make sense to me, so there has to be some explanation, right?

 

[Ryan 23]

I put one lead on one big terminal and one on the other, that's where I got the 12.66 volts, then when I turned the key to the Acc position it dropped to 12.61volts

 

[Delmer]

OK, that means your accessory relay is not working. Did you find the small terminal that has no power with the key off, and 12v with the key on? If you have a working power supply from the key turning on and off, and your accessory relay not turning on and off, then I can finally, confidently say that relay is not working. ( I still don't understand how you had power at the fuses...)

IF it's not working then you can try whacking it with a medium sized screwdriver handle, if that doesn't work, go ahead and take it apart, you might be able to clean up the contacts and get it to work. That's assuming you're getting it to click, if you don't get a click then the coil might be burned out, check the small terminals for connection with one wire removed, infinite ohm/no connection means the coil is burned out and you won't fix it.

 

[Ryan 23]

A friend of mine checked the fuses with a test light and said they were getting power, I may have misunderstood him.... I will try to whack it a few times, if that dosent work I will just replace it.

 

[Ryan 23]

I got the relay pulled, there was a long black wire that wasnt hooked up to anything that came off where the grounds were hooked up on the relay. any ideas to where that goes to?