JD 310D Reverser Dump solenoid

[fred rosenberg]

So my JD 310D wont go into to forward or reverse, after sitting for about 2 months. I drained the main hydraulic tank, to change out the starter which was intermittent (moving that main hyd hose makes access to the bottom starter bolt easier)put the rebuilt starter back in, serviced the hydraulic reservoir, and boom- it still wont start. Thats the least of my problems now. After shorting out the two solenoid terminals she started- but now, she wont go into forward or reverse. Nothing- not even a little bump either way. Checked the revwrser dipstick, plenty of fluid, if anything its over-serviced. Never had an issue before. Started crawling around underneath, found a connector with bare wires going to a solenoid on the reverser. I dont know if the insulation had degraded, or a rat chewed on them, but they were bare, going into the connector. My parts manual shows this as the “Reverser dump solenoid”. (#10 in the pic) I tried to strip back the wires to make a splice/repair but that heavy metal braid wont let me. Im leery of pulling this “Reverser Dump Solenoid” and opening yet another can o worms, if any dirt gets in there. I guess i really dont have much choice, that metal braid insulation is not letting me get at the wire so I guess Ingotta pull it to make a splice. Any ideas?

 

[mg2361]

Welcome to HEF Fred!

Serial number?

You can just pull the clutch cutout solenoid coil off the the stem of the clutch cutout valve. Then you need not worry about dirt entry.

With that being said if you are not pushing your clutch cutout button then there should be no voltage to the solenoid so bare wires wouldn't matter. Make sure the switch in your loader lever and the one in your shifter are good. I have seen many switches fail in the engaged position causing lose of transmission function. Start there since it a simple check.

 

[fred rosenberg]

Thanks for the tip! So, that “Dump Solenoid” ( you call it clutch cutout solenoid) only comes into play when the shifter button on the transmission is pushed, or the loader lever button is pushed. If thats the case, why is the reverser seem dead? Backhoe wont move forward, or backwards- nothing. A month ago when I parked it/drained hydraulic system it was fine. Where so I start, to resolve this?

 

[mg2361]

Were the bare wires touching each other? If not you could have a bad clutch cutout switch sending voltage to the solenoid causing total loss of transmission control.

 

[fred rosenberg]

“Clutch cutout switch” -what is that? The only switches I know of are 1) On the transmission lever, to switch gears, and 2) On the loader/bucket lever. The way I understand it (correct me if Im wrong) is when either switch is depressed, it energizes the dump solenoid, and all fluid in the reverser is bypassed. If this solenoid’s connection was pulled, it should not affect the operation of the reverser. (Unless the valve is stuck) I pulled both the dump solenoid and the FNR solenoid off, the wires just look sketchy. They were not eaten by a rodent, but the insulation is just crumbling. Im going to re-isulate them with heat shrink. Before i pulled the FNR double solenoid, I actuated the F/R lever a few times, it sounded like it was energizing. I’m at a loss to understand exactly how the solenoids actuate the valve the are associated with. Does it rotate the shaft? Pull it up or down? Attached are pics of the solenoids I took out. The bare wires are on the dump valve solenoid.

 

[fred rosenberg]

With the wires to the Dump solenoid disconnected (you call it clutch cutout solenoid) the solenoid is our of the loop, and should not affect Reverser operation, as I understand it. Unless the valve (shaft, the solenoid mounts on) is stuck. I tried moving it, actuating it. Does it rotate? Move up and down? How dowa this solenoid actuate it? What physical motion happens with that shaft? Seems i should be able to move it by hand, the FNR shaft as well. But first I have to know what way to “persuade” it.

 

[fred rosenberg]

The solenoids are held down by a bolt at the top, to the shaft of the valve. Its a mystery to me how the solenoids effect any action on that shaft.

 

[fred rosenberg]

Now when I try to wire the clutch cutout solenoid, or dump solenoid, back up, which wire goes where? They were not even color coded?

Guess i got a 50/50 shot of wiring it back up correctly

 

[mg2361]

“Clutch cutout switch” -what is that? The only switches I know of are 1) On the transmission lever, to switch gears, and 2) On the loader/bucket lever.

Those switches are the clutch cutout (dump) switches.

Its a mystery to me how the solenoids effect any action on that shaft.

The valve inside the stem moves with magnetic force.

The only way to determine if the valve is working correctly is to perform pressure checks.

 

[fred rosenberg]

Those switches are the clutch cutout (dump) switches.



The valve inside the stem moves with magnetic force.

The only way to determine if the valve is working correctly is to perform pressure checks.

Thanx for explaining MG.....it kinda makes sense now. That visible shaft on the outside does not move, all the action is internally, inside that shaft. Externally, I have no way of knowing if the internals of that dump valve are working, or if it’s stuck in the “bypass” position. Im going to repair the wiring with heat shrink, and reinstall the solenoids. After reading a number of posts on here, about the Reverser, it seems guys who have a Reverser on the way out notice a degradation coming...ie weak in higher gears, slipping, only going into Reverse, etc. I had none of this. It just quit cold- after sitting a month and me draining the main hydraulic system. How does the Reverser build its pressure? How/where do I perform this pressure check? That is the next step I suppose. Should I drop that Reverser pan and change the fluid? I was was planning on doing that on both backhoes anyhow, but if the reverser needs to come out, makes no sense to do it now.

 

[fred rosenberg]

Well, after delving into this manual, from what I read, that “Dump solenoid” must be hooked up, and have power. As the book states “When the clutch cut-off solenoid is de-energized, element oil flow is blocked”. It’s a continuous duty solenoid, that must have power, constantly energized. It has to be connected. Hitting the switch on the loader lever or transmission shift lever does not power the solenoid, it depowers it. And you are correct, the manual refers to it as the “clutch cutoff solenoid”. The parts manual calls it a “Dump solenoid”. Obviously the guys who wrote these manuals were in different rooms. So, how do I determine polarity on the solenoid when I wire it back to the plug? I have to assume it matters.

 

[fred rosenberg]

Does JD even still sell these solenoids?

 

[fred rosenberg]

Got my answer, from the JD dealer. Holy moly....I thought my CAT dealer in Atlanta was bad. They want 483.80$ for the solenoid coil, 595.56$ for the solenoid valve, and 106.03$ for the seal kit. I paid 10K for the whole machine. Anybody got a link to a used parts dealer?

 

[mg2361]

from what I read, that “Dump solenoid” must be hooked up, and have power.

My apologies. You are correct. When I looked at the schematic (more like glanced at it) I did not pay attention to the switch symbol indicating that it is a normally closed switch.

how do I determine polarity on the solenoid when I wire it back to the plug?

It shouldn't matter.

How does the Reverser build its pressure? How/where do I perform this pressure check?

All that information is in the book you have. Theory in section 9020-05. Testing in section 9020-25.

 

[fred rosenberg]

Well, after heat shrinking all the wires, some re-spliced, i installed the solenoids. The FNR dual solenoid clicks as it’s supposed to, pulled the plug off, and checked for power moving the F/R lever next to the wheel, all seems correct. The Dump/Clutch cutoff solenoid is not working. Pulled apart the connector- no power to it. Now what?
I know power comes thru the two switches, one on the gearshift, the other on the bucket lever.....which one is first? Does it go thru the parking brake as well? Im about done here, this thing is wearing me out

 

[mg2361]

Loader lever first, then the gear shifter. Fuse good?

 

[fred rosenberg]

Checked all the fuses, all are good. Pulled out my manual, a really slick, black JD binder that I bought on Fleabay when I first acquired this machine. It is actually a collection of different manuals/booklets, all put together in this nice fancy black binder. The troubleshooting chart for clutch disconnect solenoid referred me to Group 9015-15. Guess what? The Group 9015 manual is missing. I can’t believe it.

 

[fred rosenberg]

Just trying to reason this out in my head, the circuit must come from the fusebox to loader lever switch first, you say? Makes sense, its right next to the fusebox.

 

[fred rosenberg]

Loader lever first, then the gear shifter. Fuse good?

I did not see a fuse for the “clutch disconnect”. I don’t have the Group 9015 manual, sadly...
Which circuit powers that clutch disconnect solenoid? There is a 10A fuse for FNR/Park brake fuse. It’s good, as I have power to the FNR solenoid. I do see a relay “Neutl” or Neutral relay...no idea what that’s for. I guess at this point I’ll run a hot circuit straight to the clutch cutout solenoid just to make sure its not a reverser hydraulic issue but I think its a power problem to the solenoid.

 

[jd2355]

Hi, it sounds like you, and I are having like issues with our machine. I will go get my manual and see if I have that section. One question, if you have your floor access panel open, does your parking brake linkage move when you put your parking brake switch off, and one?