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JCB Skid Steer

Discussion in 'Skid Steers' started by scorpian5, Feb 14, 2010.

  1. dave esterns

    dave esterns Senior Member

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    im surprised i missed responding to this post. we got the jcb 205 last fall, and i could not be happier about it. the jcb is a sweet machine. we put about 500 hours on it this winter. the particular unit we had ended up going to the shop recently, and because of the nature of the problem it was having, they traded us into a brand new machine for free. the service and support has been outstanding. i can not say enough good things.

    the cab definitely is a dream its easily the most comfortable machine we have. i dont know what the hold up is on the new ones, the new one we just got works just fine...
     
  2. barklee

    barklee Senior Member

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    What was the problem that they traded you into a new machine, if you dont mind my asking?
     
  3. dave esterns

    dave esterns Senior Member

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    ever since it was new the boom would bump against the cab anywhere from 0-4 times a day. it didn't really cause any problems it was just annoying. they tried putting a new boom on it and that helped but did not solve the problem. the new one does not have this problem so we should be good to go... at this point i don't see how i could ever go back to a traditional skid steer...
     
  4. StumpyWally

    StumpyWally Senior Member

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    Anyone got any answer or input on my post of 3/23/13 about JCB SSL/CTL Q4 2012 problems?? How about from Dave Esterns or JCBiron??
     
  5. Cobra-R

    Cobra-R Member

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    I am a dealer and I was told dealer inventory had gotten way too high and production allocation for North America was being put on hold. If you can make the jump to a 190T, you should be ok.
     
  6. Digdeep

    Digdeep Senior Member

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    True...sales were low...and the booms were swinging side to side and hitting the cab. The large frames still do with a mulcher on them...and the boom will rub on the tracks if the boom is on the downhill side with a mulcher on it.
     
  7. dave esterns

    dave esterns Senior Member

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    i know they are making the switch to tier 4 right now too perhaps that has something to do with it. i believe they will have a revision of the whole machine at this time too. as far as the boom hitting the cab, on the large frame i just do not believe that, i do believe it may rub on the track. they only have 3/4 inch clearance between boom and cab on our new (75 hours) 205, and it does not hit, and the large models have over 3 inches; if that thing was managing to swing that far it needs new pins and bushings. i would say if you can stand to have a radial boom, that would be the way to go.
     
  8. Digdeep

    Digdeep Senior Member

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukzHgnZJfYw

    Brand new machine.
     
  9. KSSS

    KSSS Senior Member

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    Looks like they need a way to support the front of the loader arms or really tighten up the back pivot point.
     
  10. Cobra-R

    Cobra-R Member

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    God knows no skid loaders have play in their booms.........every machine on my lot has side to side play.....including the Cats, Deeres, and New Hollands ect.

    The small frame machine booms were not line bore at the factory initially.....we had a machine that had the boom contact the cab with less then 100 hours. We had it line bored and fixed for the customer (JCB even paid for the rental while it was being fixed) and it is totally fine now. The machine has about 3000 hours on it now. The customer ordered another machine while this was all happening......the first machine is fine, the second machine has been totally trouble free. ( I would expect it to have 500+ hours by now)

    Lets get some videos of people shaking the booms on Backhoes, Telehandlers, and Excavators. If single arm skid loaders can't work, I am sure big equipment would never work with one arm.
     
  11. Digdeep

    Digdeep Senior Member

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    I'm sure the point the guy that took the video was making wasn't that booms shouldn't have some very minimal side to side play, but that a new machine shouldn't have the boom contact the track on such a low hour machine. If it does it when it's new, what will the play be like when it has 1,000-2,000 hours?

    Could this only be one reason why JCB has such a small market share in the US?
     
  12. dave esterns

    dave esterns Senior Member

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    i will reply more to this later, but i just went out and tried this on the 205 with the manure scraper sticking 8 feet out front of the machine, and the majority of the movement you see comes from the entire machine moving, not the arm. the benefits of owning the jcb far outweigh any different idea of purchasing a competitive brand.
     
  13. StumpyWally

    StumpyWally Senior Member

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    Thanks for the opinions on the JCB small machine "hold" in the fall of 2012. Since my dealer wouldn't even quote me on one when the "hold" went into effect, I'm inclined to think that it wasn't because of over-stocking problems, but rather because of boom problems (clearance, side play) on the small machines. At the time I wasn't willing to look at the larger frame machines...I think I should have. A jump to a 190T would not have helped, since the large frames start at a 225T.

    Since Volvo's appear to be just re-branded JCB's (e.g., JCB 190T=Volvo MCT85 & JCB 260T =Volvo MCT125), is there any difference between the JCB & Volvo, or is it just a choice of dealers?
     
  14. Cobra-R

    Cobra-R Member

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    Given that I have been getting a steady supply of small frame machines in since last sept (except for the Radial lift 135 & 150) I tend to believe it.
     
  15. Cobra-R

    Cobra-R Member

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    I have have only been a JCB dealer for a year or so, and a New Holland dealer for almost 40 years. So take what I say with a grain of salt.

    30 years ago, we heard simular comments about New Holland's verticle lift booms. They were too complicated, they had too many joints, ect ect. If verticle lift skid loaders were needed/wanted, Bobcat would have them....so on and so on.

    Today...about 70% of skid loaders sold in North America are verticle lift machines......aparantly Bobcat changed their mind that verticle lift booms have an advantage.

    I have an average of 50% market share in my PAR with new holland. Skid loaders are 40%+ of my total business.....yet since I took on JCB, they are outselling my NH machines. Right or wrong, that is pretty hard for me to ignore.....regardless of my personal opinions. JCB just might be starting to get attention in some areas?
     
  16. Digdeep

    Digdeep Senior Member

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    You've made two good points in this post.

    1. You've been a NH dealer for 40 years and a JCB dealer for about a year. How many dealers has JCB had in your area in the 40 years you've been selling NH? JCB has been selling in the US for quite some time and they just don't have the perceived brand value that NH and others have. This is evidenced by their wold market share lead in backhoes. They had about 40% in 2011 the last years worth of info I got from my Bobcat contact, but only had 1.3% in the US. Their SSL market share at the end of 2011 was about 1%. I doubt it will be much higher for 2012 once last years results are available. I'm sure your dealership is a good one, but JCB simply hasn't had a good dealer network in the US for as long as I was in the business or paying attention to the market. They are not a dealer's first choice and are usually an addition to a dealer's main linem which means that they usually arent the salesforce's first choice either. Until they reach a point of becoming the dealer's primary product of choice they will not reach any significant level of market share. Throw in parts availability and price issues they had in the past and it's going to be a very long haul.

    2. It is true that NH offered vertical booms before anyone, but it's also true that they were pretty much the only one until Bobcat started. This demonstrates two things- 1) Bobcat is the trend setter in the market place and validated the technology someone else was using in a very short time. 2) Bobcat essentially did this to sell what others didn't have (except for NH and the Deere branded NH). They're not quite the trend setter anymore.

    I'm not saying that the JCB SSL/CTLs are bad machines, but it is clear that after well over a decade of selling the "Robot" concept it hasn't caught on. This could be for many reasons, but I think it boils down to traditionally poor dealers (not saying you are), poor reliability in the past, high parts pricing in the past and lots of other brand choices that have both higher perceived value and actual higher residual resale values.
     
  17. dave esterns

    dave esterns Senior Member

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    but this time jcb has something they never did before, the nicest skid steer on the market. jcb has 2 obstacles to overcome. 1. nobody in the us even knows they exist. 2. not having the vast dealer network. like i did, people will seek out jcb because they like the skid loader. every jcb dealer i have come across is selling lots these skid loaders, the evil plan is working...
     
  18. Digdeep

    Digdeep Senior Member

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    Dave...not trying to bust your bubble, but JCB started operations in the US in 1969 and opened their Pooler GA plant around 1998 (15 years ago), and the Robot SSL has been around since the 90s. Why is it you think that nobody knows who they are? I think most people knwo who JCB is. Do you think it could simply be people may think that there are other better built, better performing, and better supported products out there?

    How long does it take to build a "vast" dealer network so that people with "seek out" JCB specifically because of the their skid steer; it's already been 43 years since they've been selling equipment in the US market, and they introduced the Robot in 1993, 19 years ago.

    As far as selling lots of skid steers I already stated that their market share in the US was 1% in 2011 after 18 years of selling their skid steer in this market.

    I don't think it's a bad product, but I think JCB has a really tall mountain to climb in the US market, and they've been at the base of that mountain for 43 years. I'm waiting to see them start putting one foot in front of the other.
     
  19. dave esterns

    dave esterns Senior Member

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    ah you see im coming from the ag market. there is nobody i know who knew who jcb was before we got the skid steer around.. they would come to the farm, look at the skid loader and say, "this thing is sweet," then they would say, "who the hell is jcb?" so in 2011 jcb had "1%" of the skid steer market... well i say thats pretty good since the new generation was released in 2010ish. the new machines are hardly a robot. as was stated before, vertical lift counts for "70%" of the skid steer market, so jcb was eliminating 70% of their sales before they even started. bobcat made their name from only skid loaders, so why cant jcb. even if jcb tried building a dealer network, you almost cant compete with a brand like bobcat who has a dealer on every street corner... either way, if you would look at market share where there is a local jcb dealer, you would find it to be much higher than 1%.
     
  20. Digdeep

    Digdeep Senior Member

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    Dave...what JCB needs is another 10,000 customers just like you and they'd be fine. Your enthusiasm is admirable. Unfortunately, they're just not there yet.

    JCB has had over 40 years to put a dealer on every street corner if they had chosen to do so, but the simple fact is that the one armed JCB skid steer (radial or vertical, it doesn't matter) has not captured the US customers' heart the same way it has yours over the 18 years it has been on our shores. There are probably many reasons for this that are known by much more knowledgeable people than me, but I suspect that there are doubts about it's reliability (even with a lifetime warranty), it's ability to be supported by strong dealers, it's history of having high parts prices in the past and a lack of strong resale either through private party or auctions. I may be proven wrong over time (and I really don't have a dog in the hunt), but I just don't see JCB (or Volvo) being a strong player in the US skid steer market.