Truck Shop
Senior Member
Is there a option for Jacobs engine brakes on a Cat Challenger models 75 or 85 or much newer lets say.
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Jakes?
- Thread starter Truck Shop
- Start date
Truck Shop
Senior Member
I guess no one knows-but all the Challengers owned by my friend Dwight have them, he installed
those to keep control of bankout wagons on the steep hillsides. They go straight off never to the
side or angle. Great way to roll or break a hub/spindle on a wagon.
those to keep control of bankout wagons on the steep hillsides. They go straight off never to the
side or angle. Great way to roll or break a hub/spindle on a wagon.
crane operator
Senior Member
Aren't the challengers essentially a c-12? I would imagine he took truck ones and just fitted them with a toggle.
Truck Shop
Senior Member
Correct-3176, works real well. He has installed allot for neighboring farmers.
Shimmy1
Senior Member
Since we're on the subject of Challengers, I don't need a jake brake for pulling scrapers, but I'd really like to know if there is some way to have cruise control (constant engine speed, field cruise, whatever you want to call it). My 95Es technically have a 3196, which is supposedly a C12? I do not like running these engines over 2000 rpm, but if you don't put the throttle control at WOT, it doesn't make full hp. Would be awesome to set it at 2000 and just go.
crane operator
Senior Member
The throttle on those should just be a rheostat type electronic pedal, and I think you could set up a hand dial control if you know the output range to the ecm, and just set up a toggle to choose between foot pedal and hand dial.
A engine builder I know with a dyno, uses that when they test stand engines. Shouldn't be complicated if you got someone that knows electrical and what the ecm input ranges should be.
crane operator
Senior Member
Essentially you would need the toggle to choose which wires you want the ecm to listen to- the ones from the dial, or the ones from the foot pedal.
crane operator
Senior Member
Shimmy1
Senior Member
So, the burning question is, if I have that control, and set the engine at 2000 rpm, will it produce full hp? My tractors are like all tractors with a throttle lever since tSo I think land leverage will go up in the near future. 20k land gobbles up a lot of cash fast or leverages a lot of paid for land. I think operation styles also dictate trouble areas: if you’re farming 2500 acres but only own 200 and have a lot of paint- equipment IS a big deal for you. If you farm 1000 and own 700, equipment isn’t a big enough piece of the pie to sink you.he dawn of time: set the throttle lever in a certain position, and you have that rpm until load changes.
@Nige, do you have any input on this? Serial of tractor is 6KS00251.
@Nige, do you have any input on this? Serial of tractor is 6KS00251.
Truck Shop
Senior Member
I'll ask Dwight this morning, he should know.
Nige
Senior Member
I've seen "on-highway" Jakes installed on machine engines before Cat offered the Jake as an option. e.g. on a Gen II 16H (ATS) with a 3196 engine nobody took into account the change in engine braking capability compared to the 3406 it replaced and they were always burning brakes up.
What we did was to have the wiring for the Jakes via a relay the coil side of which was wired through a 6G-4195 limit switch mounted on a bracket next the the governor linkage on the FIP. Unless the governor control was in the Low Idle position the Jakes would not power up and if the operator so much as touched the throttel the Jakes would disengage.
What we did was to have the wiring for the Jakes via a relay the coil side of which was wired through a 6G-4195 limit switch mounted on a bracket next the the governor linkage on the FIP. Unless the governor control was in the Low Idle position the Jakes would not power up and if the operator so much as touched the throttel the Jakes would disengage.
Nige
Senior Member
I suppose it's all down to the output of the existing 161-8906 throttle position sensor and how that compares to the hand-controlled 134-0670 sensor that craneop found. And the answer is that they are both the same 9-32v 500Hz PWM output.
The only difficulty I can see is that the engine control will only expect a throttle input signal from one rotary position sensor, not two. Therefore you might have to construct an "either/or" switched setup on the signal wires from the two sensors so that only one sends a signal to the ECM at any one time.
Attached the electrical schematic for the Challenger. The TPS signal is an input to Pin 37 of Connector J1 on the engine ECM, wire # C912-GN.
The TPS requires a fused 24v power supply from the key switch and is grounded via wire #998-BR to Pin 29 of the ECM J1 connector, marked "digital sensor return".
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Nige
Senior Member
Most probably not. Whether it will produce adequate power for the application that you have in mind is a different question altogether. The full load rated power of that engine is 420 BHP produced at 2100 RPM, not to be confused with the High Idle No Load (HINL) value which is 2300 RPM.
I don't think the 100 RPM difference between 2000 & 2100 will make a lot of difference to the power output of the engine. TBH what does the work is the torque, not the power, and max torque on that engine is produced at 1500 RPM. If you can set the engine to 15-1600 RPM (loaded) you will get most bang for your buck IMHO.
Shimmy1
Senior Member
The issue I have is it acts like every other farm tractor I've ever ran......unless the throttle control is set at maximum, the engine does not produce full hp. Newer tractors have a feature called constant engine rpm, whereas you set what rpm you want, and it stays there unless you apply more load than the engine is capable of supplying.
If I set the throttle at 2000 rpm, or even 2100, when I put the scraper down and require maximum power, it doesn't produce it until I move the throttle control to maximum. What I'm looking for would be like cruise control in a truck.
Nige
Senior Member
A simple hand-operated control mimicking the output of the TPS such as the one craneop found is not going to do that. I don't know if they are even available for a Challenger.
crane operator
Senior Member
Would that Ecm have the input spots for a truck cruise switch? Then go junkyard crawling for dash cruise set up?
Shimmy1
Senior Member
Is it possible to set a maximum engine rpm in the ecm? I know you can set a maximum vehicle speed....
Nige
Senior Member
Only if it's a settable parameter in the ECM Configuration screen. You'd need to get ET hooked up to it and take a look.
Truck Shop
Senior Member
Interesting-with a Series 60 max rpm can be set in ECM, mostly to work with cruise and gearing.
Nige
Senior Member
The difference being that this is an off-highway engine and there is a strong possibility that the software loaded into the ECM does not support that function because there is no need for it. i'm betting on it not being there.