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IT28F need to remove the tool lock cylinder.

Discussion in 'Tool Carriers' started by Phil P, May 13, 2019.

  1. Phil P

    Phil P Member

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    Hello All

    I posted a couple of years ago about needing help with the hydraulics on this machine.

    The information I received was all right on and very helpful.

    I now have a new project on the same machine.

    The tool lock cylinder is leaking. I had tried to remove it but was unable to determine how to remove the lock pins. They have to be removed to extract the cylinder.

    Any help will greatly appreciate.

    Phil P
     
  2. Phil P

    Phil P Member

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    Forgot the S/N S/N 3CL00239
     
  3. Nige

    Nige Senior Member

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    Have you tired releasing the hydraulic pressure in the lines..? See the attachment.
     

    Attached Files:

  4. Phil P

    Phil P Member

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    Hi

    Thanks for the note.

    I have looked at the PDF file. I am at step 6. The only manual I have is for the IT26G and the picture in that manual shows the retainer (about ¼ or 5/16 in diameter) pin to go all the way thru the Lock pin that is about 2 in diameter and apparently made of aluminum or pot metal.

    There is a recess on the side of the 2 in aluminum pin that looks to be the end of a 5/16 or 3/8 pin. However a three pond hammer using a pin punch will not move this and if it did I am not sure where it would go as there is no provision for it to come out the other side.

    This unit has other issues involving the hydraulic system I have ordered seals for one main lift cylinder the tool lock cylinder seals and all of the seals for the lever control valves located in the operators station. I have ordered the locking pins (2 in diameter) and 2 dowel pins that hold them on. It looks like I may have to cut the old tool lock pins with a die grinder to get the cylinder out of the frame.

    Phil P
     
  5. Nige

    Nige Senior Member

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    The parts manual mentioned two dowels, but the D&A procedure did not. Strange. You may well have to drill out the dowels at least, not sure about the pins themselves.
     
  6. heymccall

    heymccall Senior Member

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    I only sees one dowel per side Screenshot_20190515-183555_Chrome.jpg Screenshot_20190515-183605_Chrome.jpg in part manual.
     
  7. Nige

    Nige Senior Member

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    Sorry, I should have been more clear. I meant two dowels total, not two per pin.

    I found this which might make it clearer. It appears as though the dowels go through both sides of the pin. So in theory it should be possible to drive each dowel right through to the other side using an FBH, certainly something far bigger than 3lb. If that fails you may have to drill the dowels out. Either way the pins (10) ought to be reusable.

    In your post above you mentioned aluminium or pot metal, but I hardly think lock pins for a QC would be made out of something like that unless they were non-OEM.

    upload_2019-5-16_5-39-6.png
     
  8. Phil P

    Phil P Member

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    Hi

    Thanks again.
    The pins in this machine do not have a hole opposite the one I can see. It is easy to rotate the pin with a pair of pliers and there is only one place that looks like it would be the end of the dowel pin but no place on the other side for it to come out.

    The IT28G manual I have like your pictures shows a hole in both sides of the pin. The pins presently in the machine don’t have a hole in both sides.

    As for the composition of the pins in the machine I will find out when I finally get it apart. I agree that aluminum sounds like and unlikely material to make them out of.

    It would be nice to find an original IT28F manual to see if there is a different procedure for removing them in this older machine.

    When I finish this one my next project is a 1989 Cat 930 wheel loader LOL

    Phil P
     
  9. Cmark

    Cmark Senior Member

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    If you've ordered new pins and dowels and aren't in a hurry, wait for your new parts to arrive and that should give you some insight on how it comes apart. It's unlike Caterpillar to make something impossible to disassemble (but not unknown). Maybe the dowels have a threaded hole up the centre to take a pulling screw?
    If you can't wait and are convinced that the dowels go into a blind hole, I would suggest drilling though from the other side of the pin so you can get to the dowel with a punch.
     
  10. Nige

    Nige Senior Member

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    The attachment from my post #3 above is taken directly from the Service Manual applicable to your 3CL00239 Serial Number. You can see it right at the top of the page, LH side.

    The fact that the pins don't have holes right through them to make driving the dowels out easy indicates to me the possibility that they might be non-OEM. The photo from my post #7 is of a 6W-5761 Pin, the correct P/N for your machine, it's just taken from a more modern Service Manual. The dowels should drive straight through the pin and out the other side.

    The Cat Media Reference Number for a Service Manual for your machine is SENR5970. There appear to be a couple on eBay but look at them closely and although they are listed as SENR5970 the actual document number in the photo is different - not recommended.
     
  11. Phil P

    Phil P Member

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    Hi

    Thank you

    I haven’t taken the machine out of service. When I get the new pins I will do just as recommended.

    I will let you know how I make out. All parts had to be ordered so it may be a couple of weeks before I get them.

    I am doing business with Kelly Tractor in Clewiston Florida and they are very helpful.

    Phil P
     
  12. Nige

    Nige Senior Member

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    Service Manual - https://www.ebay.com/itm/333167313585?ul_noapp=true
    It looks kosher from the photos, but you'll have to make your own mind up. Manuals advertised on eBay can often be missing sections, so I would be asking the seller "Is it complete..?"
     
  13. Phil P

    Phil P Member

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    Hi

    I looked at the ebay page and have the following question.

    The spine on that manual says 1JL1-UP and 3CL1-UP

    My S/N is 3CL0

    My understanding which may not be correct of S/N’s is a 3CL1 would be a newer machine than a 3CL0.

    Is this correct?

    Phil P
     
  14. kshansen

    kshansen Senior Member

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    Well your S/N is 3CL00239. Cat tends to leave out the "ZEROS" after the prefix when putting the numbers on the service manuals, your prefix is 3CL.

    If you look up the IT28F in SIS for parts info they show this:

    IT28F Integrated Toolcarrier 3CL00001-01199 (MACHINE) POWERED BY 3116 Engine
    IT28F Integrated Toolcarrier 3CL01200-UP (MACHINE) POWERED BY 3116 Engine


    Guess what I'm trying to put into words without much luck is if you drop the "0"s after the "L" that first line would read:
    IT28F Integrated Toolcarrier 3CL1-1199 (MACHINE) POWERED BY 3116 Engine

    Leading "0"s in a number are just place keepers for the computers, just to keep the five spaces available for future use.

    Hope that makes some sense!

    To put it another way your machine is in that first list and should be the correct service manual if it is as marked and all the sections are there!
     
  15. Nige

    Nige Senior Member

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    "3CL1-Up" in Cat-speak on the cover of the document translates to a Serial Number range of 3CL00001-Up in real life. Cat are just lazy and leave out the zeros. Your machine is S/N 3CL00329.

    That manual is fine for your machine, provided that it's complete. Your get-out with the eBay seller is that if you ask the question "Is it complete?" and they say "yes", then when you receive it you find that's not the case you ought be able to return it because it was not "as described". My 2c, YMMV
     
    kshansen likes this.
  16. Phil P

    Phil P Member

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    Hi

    Got that fixed yesterday I will post picture after breakfast.
     
  17. Nige

    Nige Senior Member

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    Pictures are always good..........
    Did you buy the manual from eBay..?
     
    Bls repair likes this.
  18. Phil P

    Phil P Member

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    Hi

    No I haven’t received the manual but it is supposed to be ordered but you know how the front office can be.

    The parts arrived Tuesday but we are having a drought one of the irrigation pumps quit Monday and 3,500 head of cows plus caves and bulls need a lot of water. So I have been distracted from the IT28F.

    Yesterday I got to do a little work on this unit.

    I drilled the first dowel pin on out with a ½ cobalt drill bit. When I got that one off where I could see it I found the blind end of the hole was only covered by about 1/16 metal. I used an air hammer on the second one and just drove it thru the lock pin.

    When I got the cylinder out I found the piston rods to be worn bad enough that seals probably would not last long.

    I had ordered a new cylinder just in case there was a problem and it is used on many models so I could return it.

    About 30 minutes I was pressure check the system for leaks in that area. All was well but one of the hoses didn’t look good to me so removed it and had new one made.

    Now have to tackle the driver side main lift cylinder it is leaking so bad I have a 5 gallon bucket under it to catch the fluid.

    Here are a couple of pictures.

    Phil P
     

    Attached Files: