It Begins: Big Bud Tractor to be Produced Again, Simple and Repairable

[chidog]

They need to use an engine that is built like the old stuff with a place to mount a mechanical fuel pump, so if like OzDozer says about the EMP comes true, there is a way to get up and running in an emergency.
Also spring starters should be in the factory supplied emergency "Up and Running" box, then you don't need to depend on batteries.
Watching the old ice road truckers, I cann't understand anyone with a bit of sense driving those unreliable powered trucks out in the middle of nowhere, that can have deadly consequences if the engine won't run.
And same with emergency vehicles like fire trucks. Just pure stupid, like they need a derating while rushing to a fire.

 

[Welder Dave]

Like military vehicles.
While GPS can be a good thing there's a lot of customers that a simpler easier to service tractor would really appeal to them. The more electronics and computers the more to go wrong.

 

[John C.]

Tillage is happening less and less. No till and cover crops are the way to sell carbon credits plus build up your soil.They use very wide planters with lots of accessories plus a huge fertilizer spreader on the back. All that takes big horsepower and all the goodies associated with computerized farming. All the individual planter parts are controlled by computers and so is the fertilizer machine behind all that.

Checkout the link:
https://www.usda.gov/media/blog/2017/11/30/saving-money-time-and-soil-economics-no-till-farming

As far as Big Budd handling engines, we had one with a Komatsu engine that they never supported at all. From direct experience, the only way a dealer gets to handle someone else's engines is they have to pay for the schooling for personnel from the manufacturer of those engine. They also are on the hook for any special tools necessary to work on those engines. Once those requirements are met, they can advertise as a dealer. Plenty of equipment dealers now don't pay their way in.

 

[Shimmy1]

Tillage is happening less and less. No till and cover crops are the way to sell carbon credits plus build up your soil.They use very wide planters with lots of accessories plus a huge fertilizer spreader on the back. All that takes big horsepower and all the goodies associated with computerized farming. All the individual planter parts are controlled by computers and so is the fertilizer machine behind all that.

Checkout the link:
https://www.usda.gov/media/blog/2017/11/30/saving-money-time-and-soil-economics-no-till-farming

As far as Big Budd handling engines, we had one with a Komatsu engine that they never supported at all. From direct experience, the only way a dealer gets to handle someone else's engines is they have to pay for the schooling for personnel from the manufacturer of those engine. They also are on the hook for any special tools necessary to work on those engines. Once those requirements are met, they can advertise as a dealer. Plenty of equipment dealers now don't pay their way in.

John, do not fall victim to the no-till fallacy that every farmer everywhere has to no-till or the world is going to end. Some areas, no-till is preferable, even necessary, but there are many places where it does not/will not work. Period.

 

[John C.]

The statement was made that big articulated tractors were primarily for tillage when that isn't true.

Big farms need big power and not just for tillage.

 

[Birken Vogt]

KW/Pete handled Cummins and Cat engines in my past experience. Although when I came on board I started sending them to the proper dealer instead of the truck builder because their diagnosis was less than stellar. Nevertheless they were fully authorized. Same thing with the gensets I now work on. The engine manufacturer be it Deere or whoever is not involved. The genset mfr is the one who provides service for the whole package. Though vertical integration is making it so less and less do you see a different badge under the doors.

So I guess it can be done either way, probably something that has to be hashed out between the component supplier and the OEM. If they want to fulfill their promise, Big Bud is probably going to have to be the de facto Cat dealer.

Interesting info though, I thought OEMs were always authorized to service engines.

 

[OzDozer]

No-till farming is being practised more and more in the last 20 years as farmers gradually come to the understanding of the level of savings and the gains to be made in practising No-till farming over a long period.
Minimised soil disturbance leading to less wind and water erosion, and better soil structure - much lower fuel costs - much lower tractor costs, as tractors don't run up as many hours - faster sowing - and less hours of labour needed to plant a crop. It is a particularly useful tillage method for low-rainfall areas, drought-prone areas, and dryland farming areas with erratic rainfall.

This study (link below) by an Ag Dept of one of Australias Eastern States, says that many farmers are over-powered in the tractor HP dept. There's always the "brag" factor of having the biggest tractor for miles - but in reality, many farmers waste a lot of fuel with overpowered tractors. Something like Big Bud is useful for the wide open spaces such as the prairies, and a lot of Australias inland grain-growing areas - and for heavy soil ripping jobs.

But the total market for Big Bud tractors is quite limited, and a lot of Big Bud HP must be wasted in numerous cases.

https://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/__data/a.../primefact-estimating-tractor-power-needs.pdf

 

[Welder Dave]

The Big Bud 747 is the biggest tractor ever made. It was made for deep tillage and pulled an 80ft. cultivator. The reason for 4 wheel drives is increased traction, less soil compaction and much faster production. I read a report that said only a little over 21% of farming is no till. If you do have thousands of acres that need to be tilled is where big HP heavy 4 wheel drives are a huge advantage. Other implements have been sized for the big 4 wheel drive tractors but tillage in tough and varying conditions is a primary function for them and they can do it faster. I agree that HP could be wasted if you aren't needing deep tillage.

 

[DMiller]

NoTill farming practiced here a few decades has found its Achilles heel, Earth bound organisms and parasites, the ones once kept controlled by tillage and exposure to elements that minimized their populations and soils compaction that is not displaced, so with NoTill comes excessive chemical controls to thwart those minute critters and eventual deep tillage to break up hard compacted soils. 6/1, half dozen the other.

Then back to OP, I agree with TS, not gonna get past the O/O that has to have all the bells whistles latest crap GPS planting spraying tillage gizmawitchy with Surround Sound that makes their life so much easier and yet cumbersome as well overtechnified waste with reduction of skills ever faster. Trucks will not ever be simple again, and those $100 modules are now well beyond $2000 for many or one that fails damages/destroys the next three in line that also either damages or destroys the main PCM where expense becomes no object. Are a few aftermarket suppliers but no really good software except Proprietary that costs GINORMOUS expense to get installed. Sad but waded thru this with a few local repair guys fighting the same issues in HE and AG as the trucks and autos boys now deal with. CANBUS can be a great crowd pleaser yet when faults or fails is a great PITA to diagnose to an actual fault without mass expenses in equipment to get inside and read the systems. Is also literally hair sized conductors in much of it, delicate beyond reasonable for the machines that take daily beatings.

 

[Truck Shop]

This a very interesting thread for what has been posted so far, and reading from my vantage point
the Palouse. I should have four area wheat farmers read this thread and comment. Shimmy is correct.
One huge factor that hasn't been discussed is just how wide big the piece of tillage equipment is,
right now at 80' most of the designs are at a max for stress factors. I can tell you which brands are
full of stress cracks after two years.
No till-ever hear of Yielder, the first one, guess where that came from. One issue is soil compaction,
several farmers around here won't have a Quad IH on their ground again. Articulated wheel tractors
work well on flat ground, yes there were Stieger's around in certain areas.
Still are farmers that run nothing but Challengers and Green rubber band machines and some keep
those D6's in the shed just in case because of reliability.

 

[DMiller]

Additionally was mentioned Mil Spec machines. Spud bought one, are numbers of these reaching civilians usage these days as are relatively inexpensive to purchase and parts SEEM to be reasonably plentiful. HOWEVER have been explained as watched a fella trying to license a used Mil HUMMVEE here is they do not meet DOT or Safety Specs for Civilian use except strictly OFF ROAD or FARM use as MO Brown Shirts figured out. When go to license are now restrictive as to uses here where CAN be titled and those previous to current legislation are legally licensed the later units will no longer be. EPA is also having a cow over the MIL Spec equipment demanding that NO License be availed for these as do not have the Adequate for Year Build Emissions Devices where owners could be in for a shock in some states requiring those devices or complete power train exchanges. Guy in Washington MO was selling these, has since shuttered except for what parts still has for sale, Cannot ON Road Title complete machines anymore and lost the value in sales.

Is the arrogance of the Fed driving this where will become ancient history of "I used to be able to" as with Glider Kits.

 

[Old Doug]

I am not saying this to put anyone down but maybe 80 percent of the farmers wouldnt farm with a tractor that was better ,cheaper ,simpler and easyer to fix if it wasnt shiny . Same gos for trucks if it doesnt have a bunch of bells and whistles it would be tuff to sell.

 

[terex herder]

Farming is somewhat unique with the work schedule. Timing is everything. The window for a given operation is typically less than 1 month. Then when you factor in weather and soil conditions, the window is narrowed a couple more weeks. 24 hour operation is essential, and there is never enough labor. Comfort and GPS assistance are vital to increase productivity. When it's dark, there is no other way to tell where you're going. The old marker furrow worked well in the daylight with 15' equipment, it's totally a non starter at 60', let alone 100.

And these aren't 50 state tractors. Probably only 6, maybe 10 states can, even use such a tractor for ag usage.

 

[56wrench]

Well, here’s my 2 cents. A lot of the big farms owners don’t run the equipment; they hire operators. Their time is better spent managing. Anyone can run equipment, only you can properly manage your business. Most seeding/planting operations perform best at a specific ground speed which(depending on the implement) may be only 4.5mph max. due to proper seed placement and seed coverage with the displaced soil. Around here, 99% of farms use minimum tillage(or zero till) and low disturbance which has allowed farms to get larger with less manpower and equipment. However certain soil types respond better to direct-seeding/low disturbance than others. GPS has allowed guidance, auto-steering and on-the-go field mapping which is used by some for variable rate fertilizer application with the seeding operation. Most air drill manufacturers now have sectional control of the seeding implement on the larger drills to reduce overlap on pie-shaped or irregular areas which is controlled by GPS input. Putting seed and fertilizer in previosly seeded areas is unnecessary and cost really adds up on large-acreage farms. Most farms around here may look like ‘family’ farms but they are actually corporate farms for tax and structural reasons, so hence the large acreage and large equipment. With the types of seeding equipment here, high ground speed is not feasible- they just run 2 or 3 seeding units to cover their acres in an allotted specific time frame. At this point in time, in this area, based on the available implement sizes, much more than 650hp is not likely needed

 

[John C.]

So the consensus seems to be that simple and repairable is not likely to happen?

 

[wlhequipment]

I think the consensus is "simple" and "repairable" are subjective terms. The definition of those terms, or what each means to each person is going to be driven by money. I mean, are you going to be able to just run out to the machine with a sledge hammer and fix it? Probably not. You're no doubt going to have to have some fairly in - depth knowledge of electronic control systems, and emissions / after treatment / EGR all that stuff. You're going to have to have a computer, and software and all that. But that's par for the course anymore. The goal posts have moved, and some people (like me!) like where they were before

 

[.RC.]

Here in Australia there are plenty of old school tractors still the main stay on cropping properties and the farmers won't part with them. Many have been fitted with auto steer and it doesn't have any interface with the rest of the machine so if it fails flick a switch a keep working.

There are also no emission regulation for off highway vehicles. You can import and sell any engine design, no matter how old.

 

[Old Doug]

So the consensus seems to be that simple and repairable is not likely to happen?

I think there is a market but it is small and specialized . I have alot of simple stuff the truck i use alot still runs point and condenser.

 

[Truck Shop]

Like a lot of things what's good for one isn't for another, when it comes to types/soil make up it varies widely.
When I took care of the fleet of Ag trucks for a company most farmers had their own recipe for winter and
spring wheat. The guys running the service trucks setting up equipment were requested by land owner 95%
of the time because they knew the rates that particular farmer liked and set accordingly. Farms adjacent to
one another could have different soil type, plus they know what works for them.

I had one farmer tell me--I don't spend a lot of time worrying over balancing my check book-------------
If there's no crop there's nothing to balance.

 

[Truck Shop]

Here's a nice crop of soft white right across the road from my shop. It ran 116 bushel which is standard
for right in this spot, no till.