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Is offroad fuel thing of the past?

Discussion in 'General Industry Questions' started by posrepair2013, Feb 13, 2020.

  1. wornout wrench

    wornout wrench Senior Member

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    We had a few incidents of this too and I believe the outcome was too much dye
     
  2. donkey doctor

    donkey doctor Senior Member

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    Still easy to get. Most gas stations have a pump. Used for boats, lawn mowers, chain saws etc etc Hardly worth buying unless you use a lot as not a big difference in price. I find it's more of a hassle keeping track of which container it's in so it doesn't end up in my truck than it's worth for the savings. d.d.
     
    Mother Deuce and check like this.
  3. 92U 3406

    92U 3406 Senior Member

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    You can fish for bass, cut your grass and drink that purple gas ~ Corb Lund
     
  4. JBrady

    JBrady Well-Known Member

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    No argument here on the two being different. Theoretically, they are the same fuel. I would say the one watch out on red diesel is that it might not turnover nearly as much as the on road diesel. There is only one fuel station in my town that sells red diesel and I don't think they sell a lot of it. They might be filling their on road storage tanks every week, but go much longer between refills of their red diesel. The first time I ever bought red diesel from them, it fouled the fuel filter in my skid steer within 30 mins of filling it. It soured me on it for a while, but I haven't had any problems with it since. Seems like it is usually about 0.40/gal cheaper.
     
  5. check

    check Senior Member

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  6. Welder Dave

    Welder Dave Senior Member

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    When was the Wiki written?
     
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  7. terex herder

    terex herder Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it too will give way. To tier 5.

    School busses and fire trucks can use red fuel on road.
     
    92U 3406 likes this.
  8. Welder Dave

    Welder Dave Senior Member

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    I don't know if dyed fuel relates to higher Sulphur fuel anymore or just means the fuel isn't taxed.
     
    old-iron-habit likes this.
  9. hosspuller

    hosspuller Senior Member

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    As my previous post... The EPA doesn't allow any diesel except ULSD, Road or Off-road since 2014 in the USA. So the only difference is dye & taxes $ $ $ $ $ $

    This means any diesel made and sold since 2014 is ULSD.
     
    old-iron-habit, Tinkerer and CM1995 like this.
  10. Mike L

    Mike L Senior Member

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    I could be wrong but I believe up here in the north during the winter months all diesel fuel gets cut with k-1? To help keep the fuel from gelling. Back when I was at the stealership we had a tier4i machine with horrible regen issues and after a fashion and a fuel test it was found that the fuel wasn’t burning hot enough to allow the machine to properly regen. The company only had the one tier 4 machine so it was the only one affected.
     
  11. hosspuller

    hosspuller Senior Member

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    Interesting thoughts. K1 kerosene has 0.04 percent sulfur (ASTM D 3699-90) ULSD is regulated to be 15 parts per million max. To convert from ppm to percent, divide the ppm by 10,000 15/10,000 = 0.0015 % Sulfur.

    Looks like ULSD is much lower than K1 Kerosene. Likely K1's 26 times greater sulfur poisoned the T4 emission stuff.

    To protect Tier 4 engines, I would use D1 not Kerosene in Winter. I wonder if ULSD would be okay in unvented Kerosene heaters ?
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2020
  12. hosspuller

    hosspuller Senior Member

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    Further reading … There is such a beast as ULS Kerosene … It's NOT K1 :eek:

    Kerosene
    Energy Petroleum Company offers K1 kerosene (400ppm max sulfur). K1 kerosene (conforming to ASTM D 3699 Specifications), which has a maximum sulfur content of 400ppm, is used primarily for space heating.

    Ultra-low sulfur kerosene (15ppm max sulfur) is also available in limited quantities for blending with ULSD to improve cold flow properties during frigid temperatures.

    http://www.energypetroleum.com/kerosene.html
     
    Truck Shop likes this.
  13. Mike L

    Mike L Senior Member

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    I’m not 100% sure it’s k-1 but I’ve heard plenty of talk about a winter blend.
     
  14. CM1995

    CM1995 Super Moderator

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    Off Road fuel and the difference in price from On Road depends on the State, County and City it's delivered in as all those entities tack on taxes. Of course Fed taxes are all the same.

    Here in Central AL I can save around $.27 a gallon having red fuel delivered to our yard compared to buying green fuel at the pump.

    We have a 500 gal off-road tank so we save around $135 per 500 gal, which isn't a great amount of cash but when you add the convenience of fueling up your slip tank at the yard daily the savings start to add up.
     
  15. Delmer

    Delmer Senior Member

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    During the transition, and for some time after, the old fuel was sold as red dyed off road. That was a while ago. Winter blend is still ULSD as far as I know.

    WI has some of the higher fuel taxes, $.309/gal for state tax, on top of $.184/gal for gasoline, and $.244 for diesel, for a total of $.553/gal diesel tax. The offroad diesel at a pump is usually between $.50 and $.25 cheaper than taxed fuel, so the retailer is charging more for the offroad, but it's a lower volume sale too. Just like a K1 pump will be much higher.
     
  16. Coaldust

    Coaldust Well-Known Member

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    Interesting, the ULSD distributed in Alaska is sold without dye. Off-road fuel is clear. The explanation I heard is there is not enough storage to keep it separate. With the new IMO standards, even the marine industry has switched to 15ppm ULSD, which will make fuel prices on the coast rise as we head into 2020.

    Also, I was under the impression that all the diesel #2 and diesel #1/ Jet-A/ home heat oil was ULSD (less than 15 ppm sulfur). But, I know two distributors in SE Alaska selling #1 home heat oil with 350 ppm sulfur. I didn't think you could source that from a North American rack. Turns out, much of the fuel being distributed in SE is Alaska is coming from the Singapore Rack.
     
    John C. likes this.
  17. Nige

    Nige Senior Member

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    350ppm sulphur diesel is pretty much the same as what comes out of the refineries in Trinidad in the Caribbean.
    If the fuel was produced from Venezuelan crude the sulphur content would likely be 1500-2200ppm.
     
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  18. Tinkerer

    Tinkerer Senior Member

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    I never heard of those racks. Could you explain please ?
     
  19. Birken Vogt

    Birken Vogt Charter Member

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    It a generic term. i.e. the "rack" at the refinery where you pull up your fuel truck, rail car, cargo ship, etc. and get a load. Think a rack of hoses where you get product.
     
  20. old-iron-habit

    old-iron-habit Senior Member

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    On off road fuel the bulk dealers here can still can sell diesel with no Bio in it. You have to ask or you get the bio mix. The winter blend is normally 60/40 mix, #2/#1. All road fuel still has to have the bio percentage in it. We use all non bio. It can sit in the bulk tank or the machine for 20 years and still be good. Bio is **** in no time.
     
    John C., check and Ronsii like this.