Injection pump HELP Case 580 ck

[Mike.580ck]

the 1974 case 580 ck i purchased a while back the guy i bought it from is a personal friend and he had taken the injection pump off and to a local shop that specializes in rebuilding them and turbos things like that , well he spent 700 to have it rebuilt and put it back on and it never worked right he said it didnt pump any fuel out , would any of you have a solution since the shop didnt refund or repair the pump i have to figure it out , i dont know anything about them really i have heard a few things but any input would be greatly appreciated Thanks

 

[gusbratz]

should be a roosa master DB. i seem to remember there being something about after you rebuld then they would come from the shop with a wire on the throttle holding it shut until install, if you fool around and kick the pump around the floor of the truck for a week then push it around on the work bench for 6 months with the wire removed the throttle shaft would come free of the weight coller and not work. Also when you slide the pump onto the drive shaft it is super easy to nick the lip seals on the shaft. this will allow all the transfer pump pressure to leak into the crank case and contaminate your oil, if it is bad enough all the diesel is going into your oil. no matter what WHEN YOU GET IT GONG WATCH YOUR OIL LEVEL LIKE A HAWK. if if is going up then you will have to replace those seals and try againl! took me 3 attempts to get my pump on my 188 before i got it right. they are fairly simple, do a little reasearch and you will find tons of into on a roosa master DB pump they were used on everything for like 40 years. people like to make it sound like they are super complicated but they are not that bad if you are careful.

 

[Mike.580ck]

ok Thanks Gusbratz, i actually got the machine from a friend and he had put the pump on already , its kind of a strange situation , he said it quit running one day so they took the head off thinking that was the problem they had the head completely re done , then he said they had the pump rebuilt and it was put on and its awful dirty like its actually been ran for a while, but when i got it everything from the block up was off so i put the head back on and all the intakes , but to back it up a bit when i put the rocker arms on i noticed one push rod was bent so of course i straightened it and put it all together , i need to complete the fuel returns then i can try and fire it up and see what happens but i talked to the guy a day or two ago and thats when he said it just did not work

 

[thepumpguysc]

IF IT IS A roosa master/stanadyne pump, the pump will fit the drive shaft 180* out of time. It will still pump fuel, just on the wrong cyl. and not start.
To MAKE SURE its correct..theres a dot on the end of the drive shaft and a dot inside the pump, correct insallation is dot to dot.MAKE SURE TO HOLD/WIRE the throttle to wide open before you pull the pump.. Hope this helps.
BTW> 700.00 is way to much unless the head & rotor was replaced.[should have called "the pump guy"]

 

[rickw]

I am just curious, why do you have to wire throttle wide open to remove pump? Just trying to learn a little...

 

[thepumpguysc]

NO problem Rick, happy to help..
The throttle MUST BE tied back to prevent the flyweights from falling from their cage[weight retainer] and causing an "overspeed condition" [run-away]

 

[Mike.580ck]

the weather turned for the worse and i dont have any heat in my lean to so i havent been able to work on it for a day or two but i hope to get down to the shop tomorrow and get the fuel returns finished, do you think i should check the timing on the pump before i try and turn it over to check what it does, im a little lost but i understand what your saying . he said they had the pump completely rebuilt and its a reputable business that did the job, i had another friend have one rebuilt on a 188 and he said it wasnt right the first time either but they came and repaired it for him so im not sure what ill do yet

 

[Mike.580ck]

oh and he did say it Would NOT pump any fuel at all so im probably going to trouble shoot it before i pull the pump off

 

[gusbratz]

Look at your pump and pull the little tiny cover off with the 2 screws (timing window). There should be a stationary line on the cam ring then as you roll it over you will see a line appear on the moving part (governor drive coupling). When the lines are lined up you should be firing on #1. There should be a pointer and a mark on your front pulley. I would pull the pump look at the umbrella seals on the shaft and verify timing before you waste the time to put all those lines on. Should only take 30 minutes to check all that stuff before you waste the time to install lines. Your timing drive gears SHOULD be lined up. When I rebuilt the one on my 530 tractor last month I was messing around trying to get the pump drive shaft out and twisted it and angled it and jumped it 1 tooth off on timing. Tractor started with a pull start and smoked like a bat. I had to pull the pump back off and then of course the radiator and then the front cover on the engine and there are 2 dots on the pump drive gears inside that timing cover you line up at tdc. Just saying if the PO was a monkey like me and was fooling with that shaft he could have jumped it a tooth on timing. Just make sure the lines line up at tdc and let us know how you make out.

 

[rickw]

It may sound far out but could the fuel shut off linkage be stuck closed? Thepumpguysc had me check this when I had a very similar problem and it ended up the linkage was stuck. It was a very easy fix and machine runs better now than it has for 5 years! I have a Case 580ck w/188

 

[gusbratz]

Sure, if it sat for a long time. Take the screws out and pull the top cover off. The pump is full and fuel will flow out when you do this. Open up the timing window to get it do drain if you need to or blow it out with some air. You will see the linkages inside there. When you pull your shut down cable it pulls a little cam into the linkage and forces the metering valve closed. If memory serves. Also where the fuel inlet goes into that top fitting there is a screen in there; make sure it doesn’t have any Teflon taper or something stupid in it. I bet he just didn’t crank long enough. It takes forever to see fuel coming out the lines. Plus if everything was dry you need pressure in the lines to push the plungers back out against the cam lobes so they won't really give a squirt with an open line. Just make sure every thing is clean and at TDC. Once it prims up it will fire right up.

 

[rickw]

There is a screw under the throttle shaft that i removed to drain fuel out of the top of the pump to see linkage better. It appears to be a drain port it just goes into the side/botttom of the rectangular cavity where linkage is. I found that working linkage back and forth inside pump with some seafoam in there lossened it up pretty good but it still did not want to return to full run position on its own. But I found that if I would put it to run position lingage would come back about 85% then open throttle all the way and then back to idle it would trip linkage to full run position. I am not an expert just offering the little bit of knowledge that I have learned w/ experience.

 

[Mike.580ck]

i found the return fuel lines i was needing , i got lucky and went to my local junk yard and they had some Case diesel tractors there , got lucky and pulled all the t's and lines i needed for five bucks so now im gonna clean em up a little and put it together then i will tear into the pump and make sure everything looks good

 

[Mike.580ck]

i did a little work on the backhoe today my pump is a Stanadyne , i kept looking for the timing window and came back and re read these post and realized my pump is different, do you know anything about Stanadyne pumps ?

 

[thepumpguysc]

I know EVERYTHING about a Stanadyne pump..lol its the same one everybody is giving you advice on[roosa master]..they got bought out and changed the name.. many years ago.

 

[thepumpguysc]

Just follow the instructions already provided..Remove the top cover, 3 screws [gonna get wet unless you drain fuel from side cover,2 screws]
Hold the throttle in the wide open position...
Operate the shut-off lever, watch for movement of the "shut-off cam" hitting the arm on the metering valve..It SHOULD push it "back" and when the sh-off lever is moved to the run position the MV arm SHOULD follow..IF ITS FREE and moves with each movement of the sh-off lever, proceed w/the "dot to dot" check..
REMOVE the small side cover,2 screws. Rotate the engine until the 2 timing lines meet.
Wire the throttle to the WO position and remove the pump. Locate the dot on the end of the driveshaft and look inside the pump for the same. DO they match-up? or are they opposite[180* out] IF they are the same, theres not alot you can do from here without disassembling the pump. If it sat for many years ist more than likely a stuck MV OR the pumping plungers inside are stuck..
You'll find afew threads in this forum w/ pictures and people who fixed their own pumps..[gasket kits and leak repairs]Feel free to contact me thru private email if you run into any trouble.

 

[Mike.580ck]

Good Deal Thepumpguysc i will probably pick your brain in the near future , the pump looks really good but looks can be deceiving , i know it was rebuilt then put on and it never did work right , so im not sure what to do with it really , i didnt find the timing window , do you have any good pictures of the pump or a diagram

 

[Mike.580ck]

I tried to send you back a private message but I'm not sure if it went through I'm on mobile looking at the page so its smaller lol

 

[thepumpguysc]

got it..

 

[Mike.580ck]

Your right . the timing dot on the pump gear was one tooth off from the stationary needle pointer . and one of the umbrella seals was pinched back im sure it was just pouring fuel into the crankcase im going to see if i can get some new seals and put it back with the arrow and dot lined up and see what happens