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Impact's "Things Done at Work"

BobCatBob

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2010
Messages
296
Location
Chicago
I'm the Galion 150 guy, absolutely no experience operating nor doing the wonderful work you guys do.

But, I've received more business from helping people, when they make an error, than calling them on it. No one likes to eat crow, but if you take a bite with them....they'll always remember that.

They might remember what you did, and sometimes what you said....but always how you made them feel.

Bob
 

Knepptune

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2012
Messages
757
Location
Indiana
I'd send the bill for both. Getting cranes that size out there, weights on, and jib swung around isn't a small job. The cost isn't in the crane sitting there. Most of the cost is getting it there. Sounds like you saved the day. They order the wrong crane, you drop what your doing and get the right crane out there and set up that same day. And then you wonder if you should give them a discount? I'd play that card if they start squirming about the bill.

Sounds easy enough over the internet. Lol
 

willie59

Administrator
Joined
Dec 21, 2008
Messages
13,363
Location
Knoxville TN
Occupation
Service Manager
Since you submitted a quote with boom charts and lengths, however you decide to bill this...that jackweed deserves a damn good tongue lashing from you since he bumped your tip height by 70 feet above the original quote.
 

Impact

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2009
Messages
517
Location
Kentucky
Occupation
Owner
Got a call to be hete( the place I am sitting here waiting at) to be here 8:00 am. I get here and he says he said 10. Another contractor is doing the millwright. It 10:45 and the contractor is not here. So To save time I start setting the crane up. Keep in mind I am 59 y/o. This is a 60 ton grove crane. The hired help watched me tug on this jib by myself and climb in and out of the cab 20 times. When I got the jib done they said holler if you need help. REALLY? Should I get paid before I leave the site?
 

GrainBinMan

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2015
Messages
77
Location
South Central PA
I'm the one that makes those wrong judgments on weights, etc. I don't have a crane so I get a crane rental company and they send me the bill. I have never yet got a discount, because I was the one that screwed up. And it's not like I don't have options with crane companies.

If you will give discounts because I screw up, come on over.:D Can't say as I will keep you busy, but hey, your not charging right?
 

crane operator

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2009
Messages
8,275
Location
sw missouri
On the ethanol plant job, I would charge the 100 ton as actual time, plus the rigger/ counterweight load. Then charge for the full rate on the 190 ton. Just so I'm understanding also : He told you 2 days, and then the whole job only took 5-6 hrs? For both cranes? Or was the 190 there for the two days?

I would probably rather get paid for the 5 actual hours on the 100 ton, and the 8 hours for the 190; otherwise if you send him the bill for the 2 full 8 hour minimums- he may be upset and try to get out of paying any of it (it sounds like he's not a regular customer). Then you've got to mess with a lawyer/ liens/ general contractor/ ethanol plant themselves/ to try to get paid.

"I sent out the 100 ton crane you requested- that wasn't nearly enough crane for the job you had. I'm going to bill you for its travel, permits, and counterweight, which is 5 hours working and travel, but not the full 8 hour minimum, I can't bring it here for nothing. The 190 ton I'm going to bill you at my regular rate and permits, which is the size crane you really needed. Next time just call me- tell me what you're working on, and maybe we can avoid confusion like this in the future."

I would always rather get paid enough to cover my expenses- than go to war to try to get paid full rate.

Last spring I sent a 25 ton crane to set I beams, for guys from out of state, just a 4-5 hour job. Crane gets there 1,000lb beams turn into 4,800lbs beams, when his guys read the shipping ticket. I take off in the bigger crane, smaller crane comes back. I get there, pick up the first beam, its only 1,200lbs. They had misread the shipping ticket, the 4,800 was for all 4 beams. His guys misread the ticket, my guy should have looked at the beam, said "there's no way its 4,800lbs", picked it up and see the scale on the crane, only showing 1,200.

I called the contractor, he was really worried of what the charges were going to be. I charged him the bigger crane rate, for the job, and just forgot that my smaller crane went out there. He was thrilled, I got paid the little higher rate (and we really didn't need that big of a crane), and I didn't have to fight to get paid. Yes, his guys messed up when they told my operator it weighed 4,800, but my guy should have known better, or at least just picked it up to see what it actually weighed. I ate some time, and it cost him a little more than he was planning on, but neither one of us lost the grocery money.

But- that's me not charging for $500 for the little crane's trip ( which is really just my operators time and fuel), not a 8-hour minimum for a 100 ton crane.
 

Impact

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2009
Messages
517
Location
Kentucky
Occupation
Owner
Thanks for the input. We have both liberals and conservatives here I see.

I run the 100 ton crane an actual 6 hours by the time we drove there and set up and drove back. Not sure how much time we run the 190 on that day, but think I will charge both cranes actual time used plus c/w charges of course. Not sure how I could be any more fair than that.

And GrainBinMan give me your phone number and I will block your calls. Haha

Crane operator..it was scheduled for 2 days but going to take 3
 

crane operator

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2009
Messages
8,275
Location
sw missouri
If you're going to get the three days, I wouldn't try to get the full 8 hrs for both cranes the first day, what you're doing sounds fair.

The only case I could see for both 8 hrs would be if it only ended up being 5-6 hours work total, and didn't go multiple days. I don't like it when someone says they have 3 days of work, but it ends up being only one day, and I turn down other work. Can't bill them, and have already turned down other work. That makes it tough to make $.
 

willie59

Administrator
Joined
Dec 21, 2008
Messages
13,363
Location
Knoxville TN
Occupation
Service Manager
Keep in mind I am 59 y/o. This is a 60 ton grove crane. The hired help watched me tug on this jib by myself and climb in and out of the cab 20 times. When I got the jib done they said holler if you need help. REALLY?

I was in my twenties when I operated cranes, and even back then I didn't particularly like running a rig bigger than a 30 ton. I've been a scrawny 135 lbs for pretty much all my life. I hated having a 60 ton or bigger set up, set the last joist or truss, go to suck in the boom and outriggers to rack it up, then get out of the rig to find Jesus had come back and you were the only person left on the entire jobsite to pick up and pack away all the pads and cribbing. Grrrrrrrrrrr :Banghead
 

Impact

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2009
Messages
517
Location
Kentucky
Occupation
Owner
Crane operator, some operators like to get a 4hour minimum job per day. I like to get three 4 hour minimum job in an 8 hour shift.
 

Knepptune

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2012
Messages
757
Location
Indiana
Crane operator, some operators like to get a 4hour minimum job per day. I like to get three 4 hour minimum job in an 8 hour shift. ��

Count me in on that. We really like getting two 8 hr minimums in the same day. Usually ends up being 10-12 actual hours but it is nice to work 10 and bill 16.

The one job that sucked was 18 hours on site and then had to move the crane to the next site cuz we didn't have the permit to drive back to the shop. That was a long day. Luckily there was some time to nap the next day. Had 1-2 lifts and then they didn't need the crane for several hours untill they were ready to set the piece back up.
 

crane operator

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2009
Messages
8,275
Location
sw missouri
No 18 hour days and moving crane down here. Oversize over weight moves are 1/2hr before sunrise to 1/2hr after sunset, daylight only with no snow, ice, or fog.

I don't mind 3-4hour minimums in a day, its just that every time I book three jobs in a day, before the day is done, I'm on the phone with someone explaining how I'm not going to get there, it never works out. Someone's truck is late, someones parts don't fit right, or a job takes three times as long as they said it would.
 

Knepptune

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2012
Messages
757
Location
Indiana
We didn't have much choice on that one. Turns out the city wasn't real keen on a 110t crane set up in the middle of the road overnight. Thankfully Indiana isn't real strict with their overweight laws. We don't even have to use the boom dolly here.
 

Impact

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2009
Messages
517
Location
Kentucky
Occupation
Owner
Since buying the 190 T crane, I've been shuffling outrigger pads around like musical chairs. I had a set of outrigger pads for the 165 T that I put with the 190T. Decided to build a set. No engineered drawings. No specs. Just gut feel. I made the pads 4' wide x 8' long. I made a grid of 1/2" x 6" flat, on edge, on 12" centers in both directions. Used 3/8" plate top and bottom. Thoughts? Too heavy? too light?
 

crane operator

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2009
Messages
8,275
Location
sw missouri
I think 4'x8' is fine for that crane if you're on good ground. Grain elevator yard, driveway with rock etc. Where I worked in Iowa, our 120 was on a set of 4'x8', but the 175 used 2-4x8 set one direction, then another 4x8 crossways on top, making a 8'x8' pad. That was really nice on top of soft, black dirt, when making a big pick or lots of radius. We used wood mats bolted together. 8"x8" or 10x10".

He had a skid loader that traveled on the base counterweight load, we used it to set the mats, rather than setting up on 1/2 outriggers and using the crane. Typically we'd drive up, get out of the dolly and unload the skid loader, then go set up the crane. It worked pretty good.

I did watch the 120 ton he had on the 4'x8', on a pond bank, sink about 8" pulling a dredge. It was soft and a pretty heavy pick. We did have extra wood mats to make the 8'x8' for it also. I never saw the 8'x8' sink, but a 4'x8' can.

My 70 ton I get by with a 4'x4', but I have made a larger pad in a soft spot. I have 4'x8' wood mats at the shop that I'll send out.

The outfit I do some work with here, has their 200 ton on a set of 4'x8' steel mats made from 5"x5" welded together. I think its like 1/4" or 3/8" wall.

I have also seen a flat 5'x5' x 3/8" thick plate, with a 3"x3" angle welded on it's perimeter, under a 150 ton crane. I probably liked those the least. No height gain, and I would think they would flex.

I don't think wood mats are any lighter than steel, and the steel lasts forever. The only advantage to wood is it's less likely to leave a impression in a black top parking lot (softer edges), and probably cheaper. It's also nicer to stack up for height than steel is. I would use a piece of conveyor belting or a old mud flap between your outrigger pad and the steel mat, it makes it much less likely to slide (which I have seen).

The new cranes come with a whole psi chart for ground loadings for weight and radius. You're supposed to take those figures, do a soil sample, consult the engineers, make out a 5 page proposal, then do the job with the specified support. They might do that on a nuclear plant job, but the rest of the world operates on a different level.

Experience matters, as does common sense.

I rolled up to a job, watched them drive a skid loader and a telehandler through the area where I was supposed to set up the crane. The ground was soup. The telehandler was leaving 3' ruts, the skid loader was dragging its belly pan the whole way. I told them there was no way I was getting in there, and the job super threw a huge hissy fit. I thought "you can throw all the hissy fits you want buddy, but that crane isn't going in there."
 

Impact

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2009
Messages
517
Location
Kentucky
Occupation
Owner
Crane op...you're about on par from what I've seen. 4' x 8' WILL Sink in right conditions. I've had my 165 sink on rotten soil with 4' x 8's. But, for the most part, works pretty well. I like your idea of setting two 4' x 8' with one on top for the bad spots. This will give me two sets of 4' x 8''s. I can do that now.
 

Impact

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2009
Messages
517
Location
Kentucky
Occupation
Owner
Lifted a Titan I missile a few weeks ago.
 

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Impact

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2009
Messages
517
Location
Kentucky
Occupation
Owner
Wasn't a hard lift, but, it was high profile with cameras and people everywhere.
 

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