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Ih 3600a

Discussion in 'Tractor/Loader/Backhoes' started by B.T.Justice, Sep 9, 2016.

  1. B.T.Justice

    B.T.Justice Member

    Joined:
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    IMG_20160903_112733193.jpg IMG_20160903_150853627.jpg IMG_20160907_172513995_HDR.jpg

    Howdy Internet,

    Drug this thing home last weekend, figuring at least, I can sit on it and make tractor noises. Did just that for about an hour til the dog got bored and walked away. (Can only imagine what he was thinking!) Anyway, it's an I3600D-A S/N 2750150U001070 with a D282 S/N 56452. Seller claimed it was mid '70s. BTW, this is my first backhoe.

    Paid $800 for it, thinking "if" scrap prices go up a few cents, i can recover that, or mostly, anyway. Found a nice guy on C/L that came out the next day in a firetruck. Yes, a firetruck!! He seamed to know what he was talking about and has worked on these machines before! The manifold was removed by the seller about three years ago. Sitting out in the elements the whole time, I noticed the exhaust ports were full of water. (The cheap price!) Figuring the motor was rusted/seized, the "doc" confirmed this. He quoted me 60 hours labor, 20 for R/R, and 40 for rebuild, at 3k and I buy the parts. 5 to 7k, with saving as much as we can on removal. (Knowing parts are hard to find.)

    As far as the tranny, seller "says" it was working when it shut down, due to the fuel pump. Hydraulics? Hoses will be blown, grass will Die! At least I will have a tractor making its own noises instead of me! And I may get a little respect back from my hound.

    Background:

    Trying to work smarter than harder, I have rented numerous machines in the past. I just don't like being pressed for time. I got a large project ahead and would like to do it at my pace! Work has my on call and gone a lot. My thoughts are, if I can get this machine up and working for 10k or less, I'll have a workhorse instead of a 30k "barbie" tractor. Also, not trying to flip it.

    Am I crazy like the wife and dog think I am?
     
  2. fixou812

    fixou812 Senior Member

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    Occupation:
    Millwright Equipment Mechanic Welder
    Location:
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    Hello BT Welcome to the Forum! I put an engine in one 3600 not that long ago.
    I don't mean to discourage you. ....maybe you should find a parts hoe first.
    That hoe is a monster glad it was a customer's ....
     
  3. Plongson

    Plongson Well-Known Member

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    Location:
    So. Utah
    Congrats on landing that rig. This my take on a fixer-upper...

    Tractors are not cheap.
    Making a junk tractor a good tractor is a ton of work and not cheap.
    Tractor parts are not cheap...LOL did I say they aren't cheap

    Honestly, I got a great JD210LE that turned out to "only" have a bad engine...all else is like new to barely used...well taken care of. I did nearly all the work myself except getting a boom service truck to do the pick and the engine (replacement long block) ended up costing $10,000! Just about $3k more than I expected.

    Plan for the unexpected. If you are going to keep it do it right the first time. If you have to tinker every time you turn the key, you will end up hating it.
     

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  4. Delmer

    Delmer Senior Member

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    Apparently that's a 282 diesel engine and the same hydrostatic transmission as a 656. Which is good because the parts and knowledge are out there. Bad that neither have a reputation for being cheap to maintain. A hydrostatic transmission is nice in theory for some things, but a torque converter with a gear box works much better for loader work, and more dependable. No reason for the complexity of a hydrostatic transmission with something as crude as a backhoe.

    You got it at a good price, but there's no way I'd be paying somebody to work on a machine like that. If you feel like putzing around with something like this, then it's a good project if you don't value your time much. I'd be looking for another parts machine also, or a used engine. I just couldn't stomach spending that much on that engine. Something like the rough but running 580K that sold recently for well under ten grand would be a far better investment if you look out a couple years.
     
  5. thepumpguysc

    thepumpguysc Senior Member

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    Occupation:
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    No sense in giving away 3k in labor money if the fuel inj. pump is bad..
    Depending whats wrong w/ the pump.. hard parts are no longer available for a VA pump.
    Conversion pumps are available, from Bosch to CAV, for a cost, approx. 1k.
    I wonder if your guy figured that in.??
     
  6. B.T.Justice

    B.T.Justice Member

    Joined:
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    Location:
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    Thanks for the responses guys,

    Something just didn't feel right. Don't really want to put the farm into the tractor. The 'Doc" was going to show up Sunday to pull the motor. Just called him, and put him on hold for the pull-out. I have been looking into getting a tractor for about 4 years now! Guess I just jumped in too quick at the price, and only being two miles the the house. Doc did say he was looking into finding a running D 282 with tranny, thinking around $1500 for the pair.:rolleyes:

    For now, I'll carve out a place in the back and get her out of the yard. Mamma really doesn't like the 17k lawn ornament.

    Will keep you posted.

    Thanks again,
     
  7. B.T.Justice

    B.T.Justice Member

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    Location:
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    Doc was going to send the pumps and starter out for overhaul. (Second Generation tractor repair guy) I like the idea of R/R with a known working motor, for it's a better price and I'll have spares. I think my future garage just doubled in size!

    B
     
  8. thepumpguysc

    thepumpguysc Senior Member

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    I didn't mean to discourage ya.. Its just that something didn't sound right..
    Especially if he actually LOOKED at it.. with the manifold off and water in it.. AND got the full story about the fuel pump..
    ANYBODY WORTH A NICKEL would have MENTIONED the inj. pump../ fuel system being obsolete..
    I GUESS that where the> you buy the parts, comes in to play.??
    I hate to see anybody get taken for a ride..
    Just do alittle homework.. and use a camera..
    Find the engine and inj. pump tags.. DO NOT SCRAPE TAGS.. gasket/paint remover in a spray can is CHEAP.
    Find out o/h kit prices and what they include.. liners/pistons bearing.. etc.. injectors cost about 100.00 apiece exchange. less if rebuilding yours..
    Machine shop work.. turning crank and head work, surfacing and valve job.. block cleaning and surfacing.. you know> homework..
    Good luck w/ your project.. TPG
     
  9. B.T.Justice

    B.T.Justice Member

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    IMG_20160909_135223612.jpg IMG_20160909_135207631.jpg IMG_20160909_135250746.jpg IMG_20160909_135244568.jpg IMG_20160909_135213747_HDR.jpg Thanks TPG,

    As of now , things are on hold. As far as the IP, that is a good question? Seller said fuel pump?? Got a place to park her for the time being. Waiting to get the service manual! In the mean time, I'll open her up and soak her with MMO.
     
  10. Delmer

    Delmer Senior Member

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    You have nothing to lose by pulling the engine apart at this point. You can see the block has already been replaced. You could even put in one of a few gas engines from that era. Those gas engines were nearly as good as any gas engine ever made. That diesel was light years behind most of the diesels that came out in the 80's and newer.
     
  11. thepumpguysc

    thepumpguysc Senior Member

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    The inj. pump in your pic IS NOT a VA PUMP.. its a rossa master/ stanadyne.. those babys are a dime adozen..
    Go for it.. a pump OH can be 400.00 depending on the problem and if you know the right guy..
     
  12. bvfdfire

    bvfdfire Well-Known Member

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    Occupation:
    project superintendent for highway heavy construct
    Location:
    east TX
    those roosamasters are pretty durable pumps and yes there are many of them out there. if your going to go through be sure you pull the precups. they have a copper seal under them that you can count on leaking. every ih engine that have dealt with has always been dependent on the glow plugs all working, and try not to make an ether baby out of it. it is a lot easier to ruin an engine with ether than most can imagine. besides all that; good luck on the build. i like old iron too!
     
  13. El Hombre

    El Hombre Senior Member

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    Location:
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    Hope you got a BIG covered work area if you start pulling that apart; just the engine ain't bad, but it you get into the working bits like the boom and front bucket, 1000 square feet is marginal....I wonder when IH bailed on backhoes?
     
  14. B.T.Justice

    B.T.Justice Member

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    As I said, Slooow project. Work kinda gets in the way! I decided to use the machine a $800 college class, with a $135 book. Worse case, I scrap her.... However, I am eager to learn! Being said, I will post my progress and failures here! This is a project on my spare time,!! for i am not glued to the computer!! I do what I can, When I can.
    Here we go!!

    Valve cover came off nicely. Looks like it was taken off previously, for the gasket was half gone. ALT. removed.. Half Seized, however it was converted to a 12v system, looks like an easy find.

    Took the Radiator hoses off and clean water flowed out. Left side manifold off, so far, so good.

    Now, The IP!! Removed the fuel lines from the pump and injectors. Pump is ready to be removed. (Pics Soon)

    That is where I was when I got called to work.

    The more I dig into it, the more I want to get her going!!


    B
     

    Attached Files:

  15. B.T.Justice

    B.T.Justice Member

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    Thanks TPG, I have found lots of rebuild kits on ebay, along with newly rebuilt ones. Until I know the real problem, no money will be thrown at her!

    B
     
  16. B.T.Justice

    B.T.Justice Member

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    Also noticed the top end has been replaced. The different colors on the injectors, and the head.
     
  17. thepumpguysc

    thepumpguysc Senior Member

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    As long as your taking it slow.. You might as well learn sumpin' along the way.. and it will help w/ reassembly also..
    Get the injectors out.. Remove the side cover on the inj. PUMP..
    Rotate the engine over until the 2 lines line up.. and STOP..1 is stationary and 1 rotates..
    Now, turn your attention to finding the timing marks. They might be on the flywheel or the harmonic balancer..
    and write down what degree mark the engine is at when the lines are lined up on the pump..
    THATS where your book is going to come in handy..
    Now turn your attention to the front of the engine and remove the front gear case cover..
    Give it a good spray w/ a degreaser and find the assembly marks on your gears..
    Take pictures, make a diagram.. something to help w/ reassembly..
    Nothing is probably going to line up..
    I had you line up the lines on the pump.. that's just going to tell you that your on compression stroke #1 cylinder BUT x* BEFORE TDC..
    NOW, rotate the engine until your at TDC and check your gear marks..
    SOME should be meshing about now..
    So basically, you checked the pump to engine timing on the inj. pump BEFORE disassembly and got familiar w/ the gear positions at TDC..
    Its a lot easier to do it that way, as long as you had time.. and its not Greek when you go back together w/ it..
    Good luck and have fun..
     
  18. Delmer

    Delmer Senior Member

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    If I remember right, that's not happening unless he can get the head and pan off and remove the pistons. Might even have to remove a locked up hydraulic pump etc. If he's pulling the engine all the way apart, what's the harm in losing the pump timing? That's what the manual is for, right?

    In my mind the chances of this engine going back together economically are slim.
     
  19. thepumpguysc

    thepumpguysc Senior Member

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    I just reread the 1st post.. lol.. I totally forgot about that..
    and besides, he's having it done..
     
  20. B.T.Justice

    B.T.Justice Member

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    IMG_20160928_151857075_HDR.jpg IMG_20160928_151921921.jpg IMG_20160928_175504017.jpg IMG_20160928_175458726.jpg IMG_20160929_082418866.jpg

    Thanks guys,

    Got the head off! (Need to invest in a lift, kinda heavy for one person!) Little bit of rust on a couple of rocker arms and rods. Was reading about the pump timing, but as you can see the motor is not going to budge right now. Manual is still on the way. The pump is a Rossa and looks like it needs rebuilt. Right now, I'm trying to decide if I have Doc remove and rebuild the block, or try it myself. Looks simple enough, just don't know about the weight of it.

    B