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" If it wants Off , Let it off "

Discussion in 'Equipment Moving Questions' started by Tiny, Sep 21, 2013.

  1. Tiny

    Tiny Senior Member

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    I have heard this statement from a whole host of people . I'm just wondering how many people actually believe in that statement . Don't tie a load down to stay on the trailer but instead just enough binders to let it break free of the trailer if something go's sideways .
     
  2. Nige

    Nige Senior Member

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    I have had great difficulty convincing our Elfin Safety people of that dictum.

    However now after 5 years we actually move tractors from one side of the mine to the other without chaining them down at all. If a 90-ton tractor wants off the lowboy it's gonna go anyway. Next step will be to do the move with the operator in the cab. Currently working on that.
     
  3. clintm

    clintm Senior Member

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    my theory is once it starts moving on the trailer let it go or its going to take truck and trailer with it
     
  4. Scrub Puller

    Scrub Puller Senior Member

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    Yair . . . Tiny. I have mentioned on here before that in the 'sixties through to the late 'eighties when I was driving heavy haul we never chained 'dozers. Just slack-rope or blade in float then back to hold on the gooseneck, rippers down and handbrake set tight.

    The theory was if the tractor was going to go it wouldn't take the truck. I never had any issues, one of our fellers lost a HD21 when a road shoulder gave way. I never saw it but they reckon the tractor just fell on it's side and there was no damage to the truck.

    Cheers.
     
  5. td25c

    td25c Senior Member

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    We chain everything down from the lawn mower to the big equipment with G 70 3/8" chain & binders. One thing I also do is chock the tracks in the front of the heavy equipment in the event of a hard brake "panic stop". the 7"x9" wood chocks (railroad tie ends) will hold better than the chains in that event.Also run a blocker vehical ahead of the lowboy to try to warn & slow down oncoming traffic on narrow county roads.When we meet traffic on these roads I generally just stop the lowboy on the edge of the road then let the vehical coming at me make the decision to go past me.If they scrach my bulldozer with there car then I can at least tell the county sherrif we were stopped on the side of the road & the blocker done his best to slow them down & warn of the on coming load.What the heak else can I do?:beatsme
     
  6. mitch504

    mitch504 Senior Member

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    It depends what it is, mostly I tie stuff till it will take the truck with it, but if I was moving a 90 ton tractor in a mine I probly wouldn't try. I had 41 large bales of hay on my flatbed the other day and had to come out of a 10' driveway into a narrow paved road. After I made the turn I called the customer for something and he said he figured I was calling for help after I spilled bales all over the highway. I told him no, I tied that load on for real, I pulled the trailer down thru the ditch no problem. His guys pull 18 bales on 10 ton goosencks behind F250s with just one rope from front to back.
     
  7. willie59

    willie59 Administrator

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    An interesting question Tiny, and one not short of variables. I totally get what Nige is saying about moving iron "across the mine", makes perfect sense to me. And I get the old school thinking or Scrub Puller, if things go south, tossing the load is less harm done than tossing the whole kit.

    But here in the USA, 2013, if we're talking about transporting loads on public roads and highways, anytime an incident happens that involves a truck hauling a load, the driver is the first to be scrutinized for inspection. And worse, using an extreme example, if a lowboy driver was carrying a piece of equipment with nothing more than a single rope across the rig from front to back, and it were to come loose, regardless of the circumstances that caused the event, and that piece of equipment were to smash a vehicle and kill all the occupants, there would be hell to pay by that driver. Remember, here in the US, McDonalds got sued (successfully) because coffee is actually hot.

    My point, I agree with all that it might be best to simply allow the load to find terra firma if things go south. But the reality here in the US, for those who seek to avoid the litigation lottery, a driver best do everything he can to secure the load to the trailer short of welding it to it. jmho. :)
     
  8. Tiny

    Tiny Senior Member

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    I am actually from the school of if stuff go's south , The trailer will still be glued to the load . The law here will count chains and fine you if fall short . As a general rule I will have enough chains and binders on to pick the weight of the load .

    Here is a sample , Night job for the 200 ton hydro . I worked with the day crew and tore the machine down then dropped the wing load off at the night job location . Night driver didn't get the 5th wheel latched and tried to drive off . The weights stayed put , much to the ironworkers pleasure that were standing too close when he attempted to pull out .

    2005_0402work0004.jpg 2005_0402work0005.jpg 2005_0402work0006.jpg 2005_0402work0007.jpg 2005_0402work0008.jpg
     
  9. Tiny

    Tiny Senior Member

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    ...
     

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  10. Oxbow

    Oxbow Senior Member

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    Loading an excavator or dozer in the winter on an icy deck, it is sometimes hard to get it to stay there long enough to tie it down. I tie it well enough to stay there.
     
  11. John C.

    John C. Senior Member

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    I did a couple of insurance jobs on machines that fell off the trailer when they weren't tied down. One job the driver was blocking the road and wanted to get out of the way. He ran the machine on, started to move the truck to a drive way that had a little slant. When he stopped the truck on the slant the excavator decided to go an a walkabout on it's own.

    I haven't had anything to do with trucks for years but when I did there was something about having to have holding force of at least three times the weight of the load.
     
  12. Randy88

    Randy88 Senior Member

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    An interesting topic indeed, I've heard this as well many times over the years, but there are two ways to view it, first on private property, then by all means do as you please, I could care less.

    Second one is on public roads, as some have stated its the law in my country to chain and binder the load down, I intend no offense to anyone but this is my my opinion and maybe mine alone, but the word some might want to use is "responsibility". If your planning on getting behind the wheel of anything and driving on a public road, where my loved one's travel, maybe you should be responsible enough to obey the law, and chain down the load or else let someone who can drive and operate the truck.

    For those that don't believe in this, I sure hope your loved one's don't end up in any accident with someone who has the same philosophy as you do, will chaining down the load eliminate all problems, never, but its sure far better than meeting a truck carrying something with very few chains or none at all on the load, I'm pretty sure of that much.

    As for me, with liability, I"ll chain and binder down my loaded equipment to or above the law, if not for liability reasons, for peace of mind, if there is an accident at least I can say I did what was legal and did my best, I'm not sure how I could handle the ordeal of my dozer went off the side, few or no chains on it and someone was injured and I "could have" or "should have" done something better.

    I've sat through enough insurance seminars about this topic in the past, have read all the published data and unless someone can prove without a shadow of doubt chains and binders DON'T save lives or reduce injuries, common sense says they do along with the data, and the law, I'll be handle the chains and binders and chain down what I haul, seeing how its my truck, trailer and equipment involved.
     
  13. 06Pete

    06Pete Well-Known Member

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    I know how Dot thinks but from my point of view are we chaning the load to the trailer or the trailer to the load. My point is a 40000# truck and trailer and a 70000# excavator do you need 70000# of chain or 40000#. If it turns over you would only need 40000# of chain to hold the trailer to the machine because the heaver machine is going to go where it wants not where the truck and trailer wants.
     
  14. Randy88

    Randy88 Senior Member

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    06Pete, before you go too far down that road, remember one thing, the dot is and has been wanting not just 70,000 lbs of chains and binders, but actually the 70,000 plus the 40,000 lbs as well, or 110,000 lbs of chains and then there is nothing to discuss on the subject. But to answer your question, until the load shifts you have as much control of the load as you can ever have, most accidents happen and things turn bad when that load does shift, mainly because when that happens, the one behind the wheel isn't prepared for the weight transfer or can steer or maintain control once it does happen.
     
  15. fast_st

    fast_st Senior Member

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    There was one accident down toward the pike in Mass, Car drifted over to head-on a dumptruck with a tag trailer and excavator, the trailer rolled and the excavator didn't move a lick, it rather looked like the trailer saved the excavator from a lot more damage, boom and everything restrained. As far as I can figure, in case of an accident, the insurance is much more simple to apply if everything stays attached to the towing vehicle.
     
  16. wilko

    wilko Senior Member

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    Any more you can just put aside what may be a good idea, your first priority needs to be keeping yourself as lawyer proof as possible.
     
  17. brianbulldozer

    brianbulldozer Well-Known Member

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    For years I never latched the deck of my tilt bed trailers when loaded, although I always chained the machine down. When I first started out a couple of old timers told me that if the machine wanted to come off the back of the trailer, you were better off having the deck free to tilt than not. It always made sense to me that having the machine roll off the back with the truck and trailer under control would be a better scenario than having the machine falling off the back after having busted the trailer eye or truck hitch or having lifted the rear truck tires off the ground. Now days, I always latch the deck because I fear the DOT, but never feel that I am safer because of it.
     
  18. Tiny

    Tiny Senior Member

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    Guess you can figure which side of this discussion I fall on
     

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  19. clintm

    clintm Senior Member

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    yeh that counter weight is top heavy
     
  20. HATCHEQUIP

    HATCHEQUIP Senior Member

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    I agree with on the job site but on the road we tie um down as if it was our loved ones that it might keep safe