I could use help in identifying engine (it was swapped)

[eastroad]

I ‘m working on a 212 grader s/n 9T 4728. One precombustion chamber is separated; probably by ether being used to start it, as the pony engine is not operable. The engine was swapped at some time in the past, but the serial number tag from the engine was lost . It is NOT a 9T engine, as the original engine is here, and the pre chamber in that engine is larger than the busted one. I have a 9T1-up parts book and they all use the same pre chamber. I may have to braze this one back together, but if I could identify the engine that was swapped in, I might be able to find a good part, or at least get the correct gasket and o-ring to put this one in after I braze or get it tigged back together. There is a casting number on the cylinder head under the rockers that appears to be 4F1599, but the nines kinda run together and might be 6’s or 8’s. The casting number on the block, lower left side is 3H9069. There are other parts with numbers, but I don’t know but they may be common to many engines. If anyone has a way to determine what the head or block numbers are specific to, that might guide me in identifying what I need.
I did join ACMOC and looked through the books they have scanned there, but I did not find what I need, but I’m not done looking.
I will be grateful for any help.
Oliver Durand
Odie

 

[eastroad]

Hopefully, here are some pictures

 

[d9gdon]

That's probably the old two piece pre-com chambers.

You have some cavitation problems with those chambers anyway and they may be leaking from the pinholes caused by it. I'd replace them with new.

The S/N of the machine that your engine came out of will be stamped on the block underneath the cylinder head I think. Usually at the rear of the engine on the left side.

 

[heymccall]

 

[heymccall]

 

[eastroad]

View attachment 270453

Thank you Heymccall; no glow plugs in this engine. but this pre-chamber might work using any old glow plug to "plug" the hole.
I haven't given up yet, hpwever.
The guy who put this engine in a long time ago says it came out of a 212 grader, but the rest of the grader after the engine came out went for scrap back when scrap was worth a lot. What prefix 212 graders used a 311 engine that might have had a cylinder head with the casting number 4F1599 as I wrote in my original post? If I put the damaged chamber that I took out back together, it is shorter and smaller in diameter. We tried turning down one of the chambers out of the original, damaged 9T engine, but the flared part next to the threads bottomed out before it contacted the gasket. In the pictures the damaged one is on the left, before and after I tapped it back together. It was probably furnace brazed originally, which leads me to believe that if I have to, I can braze or tig weld it back together. The middle one is the one we had turned down, and the one on the right is a new looking one, also out of the 9T engine. If I had a serial number range and prefix, I might be able to get a new one, or at least have information to use if I ever have to work on this again.

 

[terex herder]

If you attempt to rebraze the chamber, oven cleaner is your friend. It will get rid of all the oil. If water beads up on the surface it isn't clean enough. If you try to tig, get rid of all the braze metal first. At arc temperature the braze metal will vaporize and ruin your weld.

 

[eastroad]

If you attempt to rebraze the chamber, oven cleaner is your friend. It will get rid of all the oil. If water beads up on the surface it isn't clean enough. If you try to tig, get rid of all the braze metal first. At arc temperature the braze metal will vaporize and ruin your weld.

Thank you. Brazing is probably the way I’ll go, but I’m still searching for a used chamber. John Parks at General Gear gave me the part numbers and some applications for what I heed. I will update as this goes along.
The more I think about it, we’ll probably braze it to get it back together and put away for the winter. See how that goes as to whether we pursue new or newer parts in the spring. Thanks again
Odie

 

[eastroad]

OK. Here is an update. This job has become a gift that keeps on giving. I had the pre-combustion chamber tig welded back together, but the heat from that popped loose some more rust on the unit, turning it into some sort of a sieve. I overlayed the whole thing with braze and we hope that will keep the coolant out of the cylinder. I’ll know better when I get it running.
Since the pony engine is pretty much fubar, we need to tow the grader to start it. Bad tires that needed to be changed came next. Holy crap, Manny; those rims were rusted on tight. It took most of a day to beat four of the six off and swap them around.
In the process of that, I discovered that the right rear wasn’t connected to the other parts of the driveline. A broken chain would have been easy. This one has the bolts holding the driven sprocket to the spindle broken off. It probably has been like that for a long time, and will be that way until I get the machine running.
After it’s running we’ll put it in the shed for the winter and deal with these issues in the spring.
With no pony engine to turn it over, fuel system bleeding is a challenge. Probably use air pressure on the tank to bleed it out unless someone wants to volunteer to ride back there while we tow it.
Just another day in Paradise.

 

[OzDozer]

A 212 grader with a S/N of 9T 4728 was built in 1955. 4F1599 is the correct number for the cylinder head casting. This number is obsolete, it was replaced by 5F 869 (5F0869) "cylinder head assembly" which comprises the seven itemised components as listed below ....

QTY P/No
1 1H4851 (head)
4 5M2706
4 5H7225
4 5B3718
4 2H3088
4 4F5607
4 4B5647

This cylinder head assembly above was fitted to the following engines/machines .....

7S5001 - 7S7432 (D311 industrial engine)
9S0001 - 9S0139 (D311 marine engine)
9T0001 - 9T3566 (212 grader - 1947 to early 1953)
4U0001 - 4U5686 (D2 crawler, narrow gauge - 1947 to late 1952)
5U00001 - 5U11622 (D2 crawler, wide gauge - 1947 to late 1952)
4V5001 - 4V6327 (D311 diesel electric set)

The early 2-piece precombustion chambers became obsolete in the 1950's, they were replaced by 1-piece precoms. The cylinder heads with the early precoms used a smaller thread bore in the head than the later precoms that came with glow plugs.