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Hydraulic Winch Specs

Discussion in 'Trucks' started by Wes J, Oct 3, 2018.

  1. Wes J

    Wes J Senior Member

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    I have a tandem axle rollback truck with a Braden AC12-12 winch. The winch is kind of an abomination (like the rest of the truck).

    From what I can tell from the specs, it's 12,000 lbs max line pull. The winch is powered by a hydraulic motor that runs through a small gear box and then chain drives the input shaft of the winch. It works, but it's not a pretty setup.

    The issue is that I don't think it has nearly the pull it should. I was trying to winch a 20,000 lbs machine up on the deck and the winch just could not do it, even at higher engine RPMs.

    Assuming 15 degree incline, that's around 5,000 lbs to pull it up. Add some friction and whatnot, it should still be well within the specs of the winch.

    So, my question is, what actually determines the max line pull? Is it the gear ratio of the worm gear in the winch? How can I test the max line pull for my winch? If it's not giving me the correct line pull, what's the likely culprit? Hydraulic motor pooched? Wrong size hydraulic motor?

    I'm going to get a snatch block for now, but something needs to be done. I'd like to get rid of the little gear box and go direct drive with a hydraulic motor. But, I'm not sure how to size the motor.
     
  2. Truck Shop

    Truck Shop Senior Member

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    You will need to find out what gpm and pressure the winch requires. A winch that size should work with 13 gpm and 2000 to 2500 psi. And that you have correct hose size's.
    Really it's the gallon per minute that will determine the performance. And yeah you need a snatch block.

    Truck Shop
     
  3. Spud_Monkey

    Spud_Monkey Senior Member

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    You need a winch that is rated at 1.5 times the weight you are pulling. With snatch block (as Truck Shop mentioned) you would have 24k lbs of pulling power which still wouldn't been enough for the 30k lbs of pulling power you would need for that particular weight. You could always still add more snatch blocks then that becomes a mess. Time for bigger winch if you will be pulling that much weight up an incline.
     
  4. Truck Shop

    Truck Shop Senior Member

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    A big problem with winch installations is most don't have enough fluid capacity-hot hydraulic oil, another is the size of suction line and filter housing. You need a pump that will
    produce the required gallons per minute for line speed and a under rated pump on pressure, the winch will power out even if it's properly rated for the pull. Winches have a
    duty cycle just like a arc welder so a big oil tank is required. I run a 50 gallon tank for the wheel lift and 45,000 lb winch pictured below.

    Truck Shop

    001.JPG 005 (3).JPG
     
    DB2 likes this.
  5. Wes J

    Wes J Senior Member

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    Obviously I don't know very much about winches. Is there a place to find these rules of thumb? All I know about winching comes from watching Highway Thru Hell...

    I don't know the specs on the pump, but I can find out. I have a 50 gallon reservoir, but I was actually thinking of going to a 20 gallon and a cooler to save some weight.

    The hydraulics to lift the bed and roll it back are plenty strong. It'll lift 25,000 on the deck with no issues.

    I'm eyeing a better winch. 20,000 would be great. Even 15,000 would be better.

    Another question, how is the cable sized? 15,000 winches recommend 1/2 cable, but that only has a WLL of around 5,000 lbs. A snatch block for 1/2 cable has a WLL of 8 ton. Are you allowed to stretch the WLL if you are not lifting overhead?
     
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  6. crane operator

    crane operator Senior Member

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    Typically safety factor is 3 to 1 or 5 to one on WLL for lifting. Most of the wrecker specs I have seen are rated at breaking strength for the cable, with no safety factor.

    For example, a 3/4 cable is usually rated around 58,000- 60,000 breaking (depending on type of cable) so in a crane for lifting, it will have a max line pull with safety factor around 15-20,000.

    3/4" cable in a wrecker application will not have that deduct, they may call it a 25 or 30 ton winch.

    One thing to remember also, is that rated pull is at the bottom of the drum. Every layer of cable on the drum is actually reducing the pull. Its changing the gear ratio because of the layers of cable making it a higher geared.

    I run 5/8" cable on my rollback trailer (its like a landoll- a tilt bed sliding axle trailer). It's fine for dump trucks, semi tractors etc. I think it would pull 50,000 up on the deck, but my deck is not very steep. I have 3/4" cable on a old mechanical oilfield winch, mounted behind the cab of a ford 9000. It will pull on a single line till it drags the truck around, even with my winching blocks down.
     
    Pops52, old-iron-habit and Truck Shop like this.
  7. Spud_Monkey

    Spud_Monkey Senior Member

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    If we are going to post pictures of winches I figure share one that give everyone laugh. Braden 30k winch ran by 10 hp diesel engine for hydraulics Enjoy
     

    Attached Files:

    Mike Van, mikebramel and Jonas302 like this.
  8. John C.

    John C. Senior Member

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    Are the tires on that tractor filled with lead?
     
    Truck Shop likes this.
  9. Spud_Monkey

    Spud_Monkey Senior Member

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    Nope though something was in them. This was a 5th wheel travel trailer frame and that's the reason it gave away. Old picture I no longer have anything in that picture anymore except the diesel engine.
     
  10. old-iron-habit

    old-iron-habit Senior Member

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    Pull the 30,000 winch cable under the trailer and attach it to the back edge. Pull that big belly back up off the ground.:eek::eek: Then drive like hell and never look in the mirror. :D:D
     
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  11. petepilot

    petepilot Senior Member

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    oops refer to plan b
     
  12. Spud_Monkey

    Spud_Monkey Senior Member

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    I needed that laugh, thanks.
     
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  13. Wes J

    Wes J Senior Member

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    Thought I would update. I called Landoll to ask about winch capacity. They suggested that 1/3 to 1/2 the weight of the thing you want to winch onto the deck should be sufficient.

    I picked up a snatch block and that made a huge difference.

    The biggest issue seems to be the gearbox they added. It turns out it actually speeds up the output of the hydraulic motor. I don't know if they thought the winch was too slow or what the explanation is. But, it's surely hurts the input torque.
     
    Truck Shop likes this.