Hydraulic oils

[tuney443]

Uhhhh....depending on the serial number of your 410G, it may have come with 10w30 as factory fill for hydraulic oil (the change was made someplace along the production run of the G's)

post up the s/n and we should be able to tell you.

No 410G was ever designed for engine oil to be used in the hydraulics/trans.system.I can't fathom why you would think that.For that matter,having owned and operated TLB's for 38 years,mostly Deere,I have never heard of anything but hyd. oil to be used in the hyd./trans. systems.Wet brake chatter,or lack of it is my chief concern,thus my inquiry on Chevron.


Completely different oils,additive packages,enhancers,characteristics,etc.I know on some Cat machines,certain engine oils can be used in lieu of hydraulic oil but that's I'm sure another story.

 

[lumberjack]

Sae 30 (non detergent) oil is commonly used in some hydraulic systems. That I know of, only a few use detergent oil.

 

[watglen]

Icestation,

Could you describe, or better yet post a pic, of you filter rig. Sounds like a good idea to filter the oil going in. Could i use a hand pump to pump the oil through the filter and then a hose?

I get a hydraulics email newsletter. The author showed how a hydraulic system that pumps 500l/m (my volvo 240) with 1 gram of solids in the hydraulic oil, will pump 1.3 kilograms of dirt/metal in a shift. When you put it that way, it makes you think you really want to filter that oil.

For me, it seems tempting to go to cheap oil, but for what you save, it isn't worth it. I use the best oils i can find, and change them often.

 

[cutting edge]

No 410G was ever designed for engine oil to be used in the hydraulics/trans.system.I can't fathom why you would think that.For that matter,having owned and operated TLB's for 38 years,mostly Deere,I have never heard of anything but hyd. oil to be used in the hyd./trans. systems.Wet brake chatter,or lack of it is my chief concern,thus my inquiry on Chevron.


Completely different oils,additive packages,enhancers,characteristics,etc.I know on some Cat machines,certain engine oils can be used in lieu of hydraulic oil but that's I'm sure another story.

Straight from the manual:

Before sn 951254 is hygard

After sn 951255 is 15w40

20 years of servicing and repairing Deere products here...trust me.

 

[icestationzebra]

"Could you describe, or better yet post a pic, of you filter rig."

Google "filter cart" and you will get lots of hits, seems like every hydraulics house has their own design. I used one that we made ourselves, and the second one I bought because I didn't have the time to design and build it.

frame
- Most are built out of a light duty hand cart for mobility
- should have a means to loop the hose, hold the suction tube, and have a small pan under everything to contain the drips
inlet hose with ball valve and a length of tubing on the end
- ball valve keeps the oil in the hose when the pump is off to minimize the mess
- the tube is used to suck out of reservoirs
strainer, wire mesh
- optional, will make the pump last longer
pump with your choice of power
- usually cheap gear pump
- sized depending on how much oil you need to move and how quickly
- I don't see why you couldn't use a hand pump - good for building muscles
- Some put a electric reel on the cart so you don't have to search for an extension cord all the time
- little box with a switch
relief valve
- in case the filters are plugged or the ball valve on the return hose is closed
- looped back to the pump inlet
filter(s)
- Most use a very common spin-on element like those found on skid steers. Many different sources and options.
return hose
- ball valve on the end to minimize the mess

The cheapest option is to run one filter with a similar micron rating as your equipment. The potential issue is that you can fill the filter up quickly.

Most carts will run two spin-on filters in series. The first one will be coarse, something in the 30-40 micron range. This is to capture the mid-sized debris and larger. The second filter should probably be 5-10 micron to catch all the small stuff. I think most 80's or older machines will have a 20 micron filter or coarser. With this set-up you will be splitting the debris between two filters allowing a longer change out interval and the second filter may do a little better job. Some people also use a water absorbing filter - I have never used one so I can't say how well they work.

ISZ

 

[tuney443]

Straight from the manual:

Before sn 951254 is hygard

After sn 951255 is 15w40

20 years of servicing and repairing Deere products here...trust me.

What manual would that be?????? My 410G Owners Manual specifically states ONLY hydraulic oil for the hydraulics/trans./both axles/wheel ends.This is the manual that came with the machine when it was bought new from Nortrax.Go to ANY other 410G Owners Manual and it will state the same thing regardless of SN.The machine came from the factory with HyGard,the 1K hr.service done under warranty by Nortrax got a HyGard replacement which is still currently in the machine.I have bought a pail or 2 of HyGard at Nortrax which is now Jesco with them knowing full well which machine it's going in.So please explain why I should trust you with this engine oil nonsense? To make matters worse you said to use 10-30 engine oil, now it's 15-40.

 

[cutting edge]

Firstly,what is the serial number of your machine?

My info comes from a little thing called the maintenance uptime planner.

It suggests 15w40 or better,whci also allows you to use 10w30, whcih suits your operating conditions better.

I wouldn't make this up...go down to nortrax and ask a partsman to pull this up on PM Pro.

 

[tuney443]

Firstly,what is the serial number of your machine?

My info comes from a little thing called the maintenance uptime planner.

It suggests 15w40 or better,whci also allows you to use 10w30, whcih suits your operating conditions better.

I wouldn't make this up...go down to nortrax and ask a partsman to pull this up on PM Pro.

Well,it appears you are correct in certain areas.My parts guy at Jesco said that from SN 951253 forward,the factory fill ONLY for the hydraulic system was 10-30 engine oil.All other systems[except the engine ] got HyGard.He doesn't know if that info ever made it into the later SN owner's manuals or not but he gave me that info from that PM Pro.This makes absolutely no sense to me as the 2 oils are so far apart in their characteristics and also because nothing was changed as far as I know in the hydraulic system to warrant such a change.I will continue to only use hydraulic oil in mine throughout however as I have an earlier 410G--SN 915428.Can you shed some light on this cutting edge?Also,in the future,can you please state that you are a John Deere authorized mechanic instead of saying you have ''20 years of servicing and repairing Deere products here''?I can say that same thing except for the years with Deere which would be app.32,but the difference is I'm an operator first by choice,a repairman second by necessity.Now that the cat is out of the bag,I'll probably have some questions for you real soon.Thanks.:drinkup

 

[Nige]

Icestation,

Could you describe, or better yet post a pic, of you filter rig. Sounds like a good idea to filter the oil going in. Could i use a hand pump to pump the oil through the filter and then a hose?

I get a hydraulics email newsletter. The author showed how a hydraulic system that pumps 500l/m (my volvo 240) with 1 gram of solids in the hydraulic oil, will pump 1.3 kilograms of dirt/metal in a shift. When you put it that way, it makes you think you really want to filter that oil.

For me, it seems tempting to go to cheap oil, but for what you save, it isn't worth it. I use the best oils i can find, and change them often.

Try Googling for "kidney loop filtration" or "oil dialysis machines". Here's a good link for you, but by no means the only one. http://www.hydac.com.au/schroeder_kidneyloop.aspx - Hydac is a specialist filter manufacturer that does lots of applications for hydraulic systems clean up.

To further expand your comment about contamination and how much wieght of debris will go through a pump, look at these numbers. You'll need to read up a bit about ISO Cleanliness Code (again Google is your friend) to make sense of it all. Take an implement pump moving 32 gallons/min and working 8 hours/day 200 days/yr - this is how much debris it will pump. Some of it is smaller than you can see with the human eye.

ISO 19/16 - 158 pounds/year
ISO 18/15 - 79 pounds/year
ISO 16/13 - 20 pounds/year

Clean oil can easily double component lives .......... that saves big dollars.

We found that a dialysis machine would typically reduce the ISO Code of an hydraulic oil by 1-2 over the course of about 1 hour. This was usually when the machine was being PM-d.

Apologies for thread hijack .............

 

[blitz138]

We use DesCase stuff. http://descase.com/products/fluid-handling-filtration/portable-filtration/ I think they are a little on the expensive side but they do a great job. Desiccant filters are a must as well.

 

[oldseabee]

Any body out there using bypass filters on the return oil. These filter down to 1 micron, but only catch 10% of the return oil on one pass but over a couple of hours will catch most of the return oil. Several companies make these? Just curious.

 

[Nige]

Waste of time IMHO. We prefer to kidney-loop every once in a while and keep the system on the machine as simple as possible. Also if you have multiple machines it's cheaper to have something external than it is to retrofit every machine with a return bypass filter.

 

[tuney443]

Waste of time IMHO. We prefer to kidney-loop every once in a while and keep the system on the machine as simple as possible. Also if you have multiple machines it's cheaper to have something external than it is to retrofit every machine with a return bypass filter.

Hey--are you guys through hijacking my thread yet????????????? Payback is a bitch.

 

[DGODGR]

When I used to live in CA Chevron oil was very prevelant and I could by it in bulk where I bought my fuel. I ran all Chevron oil in my TLB for many years (ran it to +/-5,000 hours before I moved to CO). When using oil in the rear diff I would have to add a modifier to the Chevron oil. MFRs oil had everything in it, and since the rear diff oil does not need to changed very often, I switched to MFRs branded oil. I don't remember cost being significant between the (2) oils. Now that I am in CO the MFRs oil is easier to obtain and it is what I use in all compartments. The TLB now has over 12,000 hours on it so I'm thinking that both oils I used were fine. I'm sure that over-all maint. factored in too (change engine oil, fuel, air, and oil filters @250hrs). This machine is not a Deere so it's not a direct comparison to Hy-Guard. My TLB is a Cat 416C. That being said the Cat has ZF rear axle and I believe it is similar, if not identical to the Deere rear axle. Certainly the Cat had brake chatter if not using the correct oils.
BTW I do own a 544J but I am using MFRs oils in it. I hope you found value in my post.

 

[tuney443]

No Chevron dealer remotely close to me so I went with NOCO's THF oil. $51 for a 5 gallon pail.My Schaeffer rep was trying to sell me on the Schaeffer equivalent at $86. Great stuff I know,just can't justify it.

 

[smokey1]

Tractor supply is selling a pail of HT oil for 31.00 . the spec numbers look good the sale end in one more day

 

[JIMCO]

I need to empty a barrel of VG 46 hydraulic oil into my machine for an oil change. I also have one of those 110V skid tank pumps for fuel. Think that pump would handle that chore? Thanks.

 

[blitz138]

If your 110v pump is a fill-rite or similar you might be able to do it on a hot day, make sure your hoses are short and your pump is clean...... Probably better to go buy a cheaper iron rotary pump.....should be less than 30 bucks

 

[JIMCO]

If your 110v pump is a fill-rite or similar you might be able to do it on a hot day, make sure your hoses are short and your pump is clean...... Probably better to go buy a cheaper iron rotary pump.....should be less than 30 bucks

Thanks blitz, I also have a small sandpiper diaphram pump Im gonna try. I need to overhaul the sandpiper first though. If I cant get parts quickly I will go with the fuel pump. I want to run it through a filter after the pump. Rumor has it that drum oil can be dirty. Thanks again blitz.

 

[Nige]

I want to run it through a filter after the pump. Rumor has it that drum oil can be dirty.

I wonder who started that rumour ..........

BTW unless the filter you fit after the pump has a capability of 5 microns absolute or less then you'll probably be wasting your time trying to filter the oil as you pump it into the system.