how to determin what size truck to pull a trailer?

[kostas]

I see. . airbrake indorsment{Z] wouldnt be a bad thing to have . . goes well with the A.
the last truck i had in canada was a 3/4 ton gmc sierra{2500) so i imagine 1ton means dually. have you seen a 5th wheel on a 3/4 axle pick up pulling over 7tons? ??i think i only have seen them pulling camping trailers. . a lot lighter for the drive train.hey any auctions around ontario coming up?if so let me know. . . thanks youve been very helpfull
cheers

 

[greywynd]

If you need to get the airbrake endorsement, many of the community colleges offer it as a weekend deal, start Friday night or Sat morning, and walk out with it Sunday afternoon. Not sure of the price, but want to guess about $3-400.

As far as auctions, Richie Brothers have a yard just northwest of Toronto, and so does another auction company...the name escapes me at the moment.(LVG maybe?) Both have auctions fairly regularly though, I'd say every couple months or so.

 

[Nothinbetter]

CDL confusion

I would like to start off with I’m one of the ones who find the CDL rules confusing. Here in NY it is not cut and dry in my mind. Every year for the past 5 years I have gotten a copy of the CDL drivers manual and every year things change. Changes I can handle if it is clear, the book isn’t clearly written and contradicts itself in several parts. Maybe it’s just me, but some parts of it seem grey. Below are a few of the items that have changed in the past 5 years. Below that is the current NYDMV web guide, the book has more detailed info.

1) Air brakes in NY is now a restriction, not and endorsement. In one of the books it states any vehicle with air brakes unless the vehicle is exempt. Under 26001 lbs is not listed under exempt situations, class d license has no restrictions, and is good up to 26000 lbs. I have a friend with a dump truck with a gross of 25900, with air brakes. I asked 3 different enforcement officers if I needed a CDL to drive it I got 3 different answers, yes, no, maybe.
2) It use to be 10000lbs for a trailer here, now its only if the GCWR is greater than 26001lbs, below is from the NYDMV. So you can now in NY legally pull a trailer with a 1 ton truck up to about 18000 lbs.
3)You also use to (I don’t know if this still applies) needed a CDL if the vehicle was used for commercial proposes in some situations. I have a friend that uses a truck to deliver campers and he had to have a CDL and keep a log book for his 1 ton pick up. None of his trailers were over 10000 lbs that he delivered. Again a grey area in NY not really explained.
4) They also had non CDL class C. This was for vehicles between 18000 and 26000 lbs. (this may be why my friend needed a CDL) This one they dropped 3-4 years ago.

NYDMV site below:
You need a CDL to drive a commercial motor vehicle (CMV), which is defined as:
A single vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 26,001 pounds or more
A trailer with a GVWR of more than 10,000 pounds if the gross combination weight rating is 26,001 pounds or more
A vehicle designed to transport 16 or more occupants, including the driver, or a vehicle defined as a bus
Any vehicle that requires hazardous materials placards
You can obtain a Class A, Class B, or Class C commercial license, depending on the type of vehicle you will be driving. If you drive a CMV without a commercial license, you could go to jail or incur a court fine of $5,000.

When am I exempt from needing a CDL?
Not all large vehicles require a commercial license. Generally, RVs driven for personal or family recreation, military vehicles driven by the military, farm vehicles driven on farms by farmers, and emergency vehicles driven by emergency personnel are exempt (see section 1 of the New York State Commercial Driver's Manual for specifics).

 

[Freightrain]

When am I exempt from needing a CDL?

When the nice officer that pulled you over says so.....ointhead

That's the problem, too many variations, too many interruptations. It's all muddy water and the only way to be safe is to have a CDL. Granted that always isn't in the cards for everyone, but unless you think you can get away with it, it's safer to have then have not.

 

[Nothinbetter]

NYDMV site below:
You need a CDL to drive a commercial motor vehicle (CMV), which is defined as:
A single vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 26,001 pounds or more
A trailer with a GVWR of more than 10,000 pounds if the gross combination weight rating is 26,001 pounds or more
A vehicle designed to transport 16 or more occupants, including the driver, or a vehicle defined as a bus
Any vehicle that requires hazardous materials placards
You can obtain a Class A, Class B, or Class C commercial license, depending on the type of vehicle you will be driving. If you drive a CMV without a commercial license, you could go to jail or incur a court fine of $5,000.

When am I exempt from needing a CDL?
Not all large vehicles require a commercial license. Generally, RVs driven for personal or family recreation, military vehicles driven by the military, farm vehicles driven on farms by farmers, and emergency vehicles driven by emergency personnel are exempt (see section 1 of the New York State Commercial Driver's Manual for specifics).

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The question in my other post wasn't a question, it was from the NYDMV web site of when you need a CDL vs don't. Notice no air brake reference any where. Also you can be from the looks of it up to 35999 lbs without a CDL.

 

[Bob Horrell]

The DOT rules for CDL take effect for vehicles weighing 26,001 lbs and above - this is gross vehicle weight (truck alone) or gross combined weight (truck plus trailer). Also, a CDL is required if your trailer is over 10,000lbs regardless of the tow vehicle weight. If your truck is 16,000 lbs and your trailer is 9,999 lbs. you are under 26,001 gross; the trailer is under 10,000 lbs. so no CDL required. If your truck is 17,000 lbs and your trailer is 9,999 lbs, you need a CDL. If your truck is 10,000 lbs and your trailer is 11,000 lbs. you need a CDL. Individual states can be more strict than DOT but they cannot be more lenient. The rules apply to the vehicle id tag weight limits, not what load you are carrying. For instance if your trailer is empty when you are stopped, but tagged for 11,000 lbs., you need a CDL. Also, no matter what the vehicle is tagged for, you cannot be over the individual axle or tire weight limits, and you must comply with the bridge law weight limits (which can vary quite a bit from state to state).
There are exceptions for farmers which allow use above the CDL limits when within a certain radius of the farm and transporting farm supplies, equipment etc. They still must comply with axle, tire, and bridge law weight limits. There are also some exceptions for RV equipment when used only for recreation purposes. For instance, an RV trailer over 10,000 lbs hauling a race car to a race where the driver can win money needs a CDL. The same vehicle hauling the car to a sportsman race where only trophies are won may not need a CDL in most states. This is where there is a lot of confusion. DOT is pretty clear on licensing when making money is concerned, but for simple RV use it can vary from state to state. Some require a special RV license for weights over certain limits, and others do not.
Hopefully this helped and didn't just add to the confusion.

 

[texascadillac42]

the trailer is overloaded to start with which isn't legal anywhere!

How do you know it is overloaded? The trailer in question could have 15k Dexter axles underneath it, not the standard 10k axles that alot of gooseneck trailers have. My 32ft gooseneck has 12k Dexter axles, and a GVWR of 25,900 lbs, most tandem axle dual wheel trailers are 10k axles, but there are heavier duty options out there. I am not saying that hauling that kind of load is right or wrong, but the trailer *might* not be overloaded.....

 

[Allen66]

How do you know it is overloaded? The trailer in question could have 15k Dexter axles underneath it, not the standard 10k axles that alot of gooseneck trailers have. My 32ft gooseneck has 12k Dexter axles, and a GVWR of 25,900 lbs, most tandem axle dual wheel trailers are 10k axles, but there are heavier duty options out there. I am not saying that hauling that kind of load is right or wrong, but the trailer *might* not be overloaded.....

That Big Tex trailer appears to be a GN20 which is the exact same Big Tex trailer I own, It's a 20,000 lb trailer. Even if it is a 24,000 lb trailer it's still not legal. If I recall correctly it is stated that the dozer weighs 21,800 lbs. Trailer weight ratings are gross weight. The trailer weighs more than 2200 lbs. It's overloaded any way you look at it.

 

[Orchard Ex]

I think that the weight rating has more to do with tires than axles. There are lots of tag trailers advertised as 25K or 26k GVW that have (2) 10k axles.

 

[texascadillac42]

That Big Tex trailer appears to be a GN20 which is the exact same Big Tex trailer I own, It's a 20,000 lb trailer. Even if it is a 24,000 lb trailer it's still not legal. If I recall correctly it is stated that the dozer weighs 21,800 lbs. Trailer weight ratings are gross weight. The trailer weighs more than 2200 lbs. It's overloaded any way you look at it.

I am not saying you are wrong, just saying that the trailer COULD be more than a 20k GVW. And we could argue back and forth all day, but unless we have a weight slip showing axle weights for each axle its tough to say if the trailer is overloaded or not. If its a 20k trailer, then yea most likely its overloaded unless there is a ton of weight on the truck axles, in which case they would probably be overloaded. But its tough to say without a pic of the door tag so we know the axle ratings, and the GVW of the truck, and the GVW of the trailer. Also knowing what tires he has will make a difference. Have you ever had a DOT officer mention anything about GCWR to you at an inspection? I never have so I am curious if I have just been lucky. Every pickup door tag I have ever seen makes no mention of GCWR due to multiple variables such as trans options, rear end gearing, spring pack choices, engine choices..... the list goes on and on. Every inspection and DOT officer I have spoken with says the numbers that matter are GVWR of the truck and trailer, axle ratings and tire ratings. GCWR is never mentioned.

 

[Bandit44]

Dirt Digger I was just wondering what size tag you have on your setup.

 

[Hendrik]

As others have suggested, always make sure the set up is safe. Legal aside it has to be safe.
How would you feel if you lost it coming down a hill and plowed into a school bus.
This may still happen even with a semi and low loader but at least you can tell yourself that you did everything possible to make your set up safe and not cut corners to save a buck.
If you can't afford to haul your equipment safely, get a taxi for it.
That set up with the ford and dozer looks decidedly dodgy to me, looks like a jackknife accident waiting to happen. I would be going very slowly around corners.

 

[billymac]

Gcvw

I took interest in this posting and it has a lot of great info. I'm still trying to figure out what i can haul with my truck i have looked everywhere for the GCVW on my f650. I am aware about the CDL lic. restrictions but i want to know what can a F650 with a gvw of 26k tow behind it it the operator has a cdl lic. can i haul a 20 ton trailer with a cat 312 on it ? anyone know where to find that info ??? thanks in advance

That's a question that I've always wondered about too. Thanks for finding the answer for me.



Maybe, but as long as there are people who still aren't clear on them, there's no harm in repeating the information.

 

[tootalltimmy]

This link has some good info.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/trailers-transportation/141872-class-6-truck.html

 

[maq]

I have a couple Chevy 3500 crew cab dually dura max that I combo with a 24' goose neck trailer. The GVCW is 23k and I have had it loaded to that many times and a few times a bit over. The truck handles the loads pretty good able to pull all of the hills in Western Pa and gets up to 65mph while loaded pretty impressively. Stopping is also good with electric brakes installed on the trailer. If you know how to drive a truck loaded down heavy then it’s not a problem.