how many hours to be "experienced"?

[curly]

I am just looking for a general consensus on how many hours an wheel loader operator should have before they would be considered a viable candidate for a job with a different employer. I ask because I have about 1200 hours and am getting very sick of my employer and their devil may care attitude towards maintenance and general equipment condition in regards to what works, what doesn't, proper equipment for the job and the like. I would like to get into other equipment to make myself a more attractive employee by having time in various equipment. Oh, anyone know any good companies in the sioux falls area?

 

[stumpjumper83]

Well equipment operating isnt something that has set marks. Some people are naturals at the controlls and some never get it. And experienced operator in my opinon can do the following.

Maintain complete control over his machine at all times

Understand the capabilities of the machine, and works it, but does not abuse the machine

Does not have to look for controlls, they know where they are by memory

Has a feeling for grade and level without using instruments, they are for checking up

They understand the maintence requirements of the machine and either do the required maintence, or notify those that do.

This goes along with the above, they will refuse to drive unsafe or poorly maintained equipment when operating the machine could be hazardous to other or cause damage to the machine.

I'm sure ive missed something that someone else will add.

 

[Tigerotor77W]

I, too, don't think that it's a numerical distinction between a "novice" and "experienced" operator. I've put in probably 20-50 hours on Cat's SSL controls, and even though I can dig myself a hole and move some dirt, I'm *know* I'm not an experienced operator. I still need to think pretty heavily about what it is I'm doing, and what I need to do next to make everything safe and what not.

Going back to the analogy of hole digging... while I can dig a big hole, the difference for me and a good operator is that I might not know the machine well enough to accidentally drive right back into the hole. (Hasn't happened yet and this is more a figurative example, but knowing how to operate the machine and knowing the machine isn't set by an hour meter -- in my opinion, anyhow.)

 

[Deere9670]

I, too, don't think that it's a numerical distinction between a "novice" and "experienced" operator. I've put in probably 20-50 hours on Cat's SSL controls, and even though I can dig myself a hole and move some dirt, I'm *know* I'm not an experienced operator. I still need to think pretty heavily about what it is I'm doing, and what I need to do next to make everything safe and what not.

Going back to the analogy of hole digging... while I can dig a big hole, the difference for me and a good operator is that I might not know the machine well enough to accidentally drive right back into the hole. (Hasn't happened yet and this is more a figurative example, but knowing how to operate the machine and knowing the machine isn't set by an hour meter -- in my opinion, anyhow.)

What part of Illinois are ya from Tigerotor?

 

[adr02]

Hours

I think with 1200 hours, you can call yourself an "experienced" loader operator. From your post it sounds like thats the only machine you have run. In my experience anyway, I found the hardest machine to learn was the first one. When you jump on another machine to learn, you will probably learn the ropes and start to become good in a much shorter time. I've never quoted how many hours, or how few I've had on a machine, only the types of work I have done (within reason, a couple hours does not make you and operator).

One other thing I have done which gives me confidence, most jobs I have started, I never ask for xx amount per hour (unless I know they're cheap). After getting my first pay check from them I know what they honestly think of me, and my experience (and paid the better than I would have asked for sometimes). Its kind of like showing them what your worth rather than them just believing you. Thats just the way I do it, I always know what I want to be paid before I start, just keep it to myself, in the majority of the cases I would have shorted myself on wage by asking for it.

Also if the company you are working for trained you, they might not be paying the going rate for your experience at this point, which is fair in a way, because it does cost money to train.

So when you apply for a new job, and asking for a lower rate than the employers willing to pay, they then question how good you are if thats all you think you deserve.

'viable candidate for a job with a different employer'

Some other guys have ten times as many hours, but if you show up on time everyday, never hungover, and work your hardest, specifically when no one is supervising you, then you then have the advantage over the next guy.

Thats also a good way to get experience on different equipment... when the operator(s) don't show up.

Plus, being the reliable guy usually makes for more pay and opportunities



Edit: And don't rule out a job because the equipment is old, running old stuff can be fun and make you a better operator. When the right machine for the job isn't coming, making things happen with what you got is part of that experience thing, even if you don't like doing it.

 

[oisinirish]

I agree with adr02 to an extent.
With the price of steel and fuel these day's we're all cutting costs and asking more from our operators and machines...within reason this kind of experience can make one more well rounded and a better asset to a company. The company I work for has several dozers within a few thousand hours of 20,000. Of course engines and trannys have been rebuilt but some of the older stuff is still more reliable than the new, what with all the electronic garbage they're building into equipment these days.

I'd personally be leery of not getting a pay rate before starting. Unless you have done some real in depth research of the company.

 

[adr02]

I guess I should add If you in a city or big center its harder to get an idea of your employer before you start. And obviously I don't think you could do that with a big contractor where the owner never knows your name. The smaller companies are where I like to work, with less than ten employees. Most of the small companies I have worked for are struggling to find employees as it is, so when a reliable one shows up, they do whatever they can to keep them.

Being leery of not geting pay rate before starting is smart, not for everybody, its just worked for me to get better rates than I would feel comfortable asking for.
I only went to work for one person that wouldn't pay going rate( I did ask on second day), he offered 23, and that was what others payed me as training wage, I said 25 was minimum (and minimum going rate for that machine), or I'll drop off truck tonight. He wouldn't budge, his loss in my opinion. I still worked the rest of the day not to mess up the job. In my mind, even if I didn't get paid at all after quiting, was no big deal, just 2 days, done more work free for neighbors, just part of my experience. Had a new job shortly after because someone heard I quit, and called me (gets my name out there one way or another) and got paid more than I wanted.

Not for everyone, granted.

And one other thing that makes you a valuable, is owning your own tools, and not afraid to get dirty fixing your machine, or any machine broke down on site (tracking down leaks, minor things). Knowing how to weld would also add value, but I can't say I know how to do that, want to learn though.

 

[alco]

The company I work for has several dozers within a few thousand hours of 20,000. Of course engines and trannys have been rebuilt but some of the older stuff is still more reliable than the new, what with all the electronic garbage they're building into equipment these days.

20,000 hours? Heck, where I work that's pretty new. The D11R I have been on most recently turned over to 65,500 the other night...and it still has a ways to go yet by their thinking.

Brian

 

[curly]

65,500?!?! Good lord that crazy, I thought the 988B was a little long at 30k hours.


ADR02 I agree fully about letting your work speak for you. The last place I worked gave me a 2.50 raise after the customary probation period and a review of near perfect. Near because the boss said he didn't give me a perfect because he wanted to keep my ego down a bit. That's what I'm doing at my current place, got a raise at about 3 months and had one of the office folks stop by awhile ago, asked what I was getting and if I got the raise then he said he'd see about a bit more, and I got it!

oisinirish- I would have to say my favorite loaders I ran so far was an fairly old 500 Komatsu and a few different 980C's. Old equipment is not the problem, a lack of maintenance is the issue.

 

[tonka]

Well you have less than a year of seat time, Imho, i think a guy should have a year of seat time before he can call himself an operator. with that said we all had to start somewhere....i know! good luck!

 

[curly]

Well said Tonka. I love the guys that know it all and give the new guy a rough time, cause that old hand well he never was a rookie.

 

[tootalltimmy]

I graduated from a full equipment school in B.C.. It was 8weeks with 5 weeks on an excavator from size Hitachi 60 to Hitachi 350. Also 1 week each on dozer, wheel loader and grader. I have 28 years experience trucking from single axle to super b-train. I have not been able to find employment in this industry. There are excavator jobs advertised every week and I have sent out resumes to 25 plus job openings. I have a current job in the fruit industry for the last 21 years but we are about to have a serious down sizing.

I realise I am not an operator yet, but I am surprised that everyone wants experienced and there are no companies interested in training. I am in a position where I can buy an excavator to get my own experience. I am looking at buying something like a Hitachi 75 with blade and thumb and doing favors for a friend and son-in-law on their properties.

I am getting discouraged as I spent my own money to take the course.

 

[CascadeScaper]

As a union apprentice, the union will graduate us to journeymen at a minimum of 4,000 hours. We will run darn near everything in that 4,000 hours and have to take 2 equipment module tests and a grade checking test before we can graduate to journeyman status. I have quite a few hours on excavators, I could probably pass the journeyman excavator test right now. Backhoe I'd be close, loader I could pass, dozer would throw me for a loop at this point. I've been told the company I'm working for does a good job of throwing the apprentices on a variety of equipment, so I hope to learn everything. We do a lot of mass excavation, so we have some pretty big stuff. I've been told we have PC750 somewhere, couple 600's, and we have (3) 400's on the job we're working on now. We're pretty diverse, everything from digging huge holes to running the utilities, grading parking lots, etc..

To me, an operator is someone who does more than just run the machine well. Who cares how good you are with the machine if you place spoils in the wrong place, cut grade wrong, just little things that will come back to cost you time later in the day, week, whenever. Planning ahead and performing the work in a logical manner is first and foremost.

And just because you have hours in the seat doesn't necessarily mean you're doing everything correctly. Not saying you're this way, but I know a few loader operators that work in a pit and every time I went in for a load of gravel, I'd watch at how poorly they run the loaders. Just unbelievable, they have no idea how to properly load the bucket and then get it into the truck. They'd slam the pile, curl the bucket, and hope it's full after spinning the tires a bit. Then, they'd back out, turn to face the truck while having the load up above sideboard height while articulated, just absolutely ridiculous and a good way to overturn a loader. These guys I know have done this for a few years, at least 4 or 5 that I know of and I can clown them all and I don't run loader every single day.

 

[curly]

Wow, even I know that curling the bucket while it's down is a great way to kill your bucket pins, amongst other issues like a half assed bucket load. I'd love to go union but the local for SD is in Minneapolis, with the training center a bit further north!

 

[CascadeScaper]

Yeah the union is alright, I like it thus far. The real cool thing about it is that most signatory companies end up doing a lot of work that non union companies probably wouldn't, at least out here it's that way. I want to do large scale commercial work and road work, this is about the only route to get into it here. Plus the training available at the grounds is some of the best in the country. The opportunity to learn something new at no cost for lodging, food, or the classes while you're out there for a 40 hour class is pretty much the best part.

 

[oisinirish]

20,000 hours? Heck, where I work that's pretty new. The D11R I have been on most recently turned over to 65,500 the other night...and it still has a ways to go yet by their thinking.

Brian

WOW! That's alot.
After seeing our eq. I figured 20,000 was pretty good. I'm sure some of it has to do with the fact that we NEVER work flat ground as we shape golf courses. Lost of short pushes, lots of backing and odd angles of attack.

I'm sure it doesn't help that many times eq. goes to jobs with no site mechanic, oblivious managers and operators that don't care.

I had three pieces shipped to me just three weeks ago. 2 of which are already down! Now I'm no mechanic but I sure try. When the alarm sheet says a pm is 800hrs past due you gotta wonder. I have spant over $14k on the eq. that I just received (supposedly fully serviced and ready to go)

Everybody from the operator to the president of the company needs to read the stick "Take of this machine...It pays your salary"

 

[CascadeScaper]

I saw a good sticker in an excavator once "If this machine doesn't work, neither do you"

 

[PSDF350]

I saw a good sticker in an excavator once "If this machine doesn't work, neither do you"

:notworthy

 

[Tigerotor77W]

What part of Illinois are ya from Tigerotor?

All over the place... grew up in a suburb of Chicago, and am now in Urbana-Champaign for university.

 

[amscontr]

I agree with knowing the control location and having some mechanical knowledge of the machines functions. I agree with everything so far at this point!