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how are cranes rated?

Discussion in 'Cranes' started by BradyHill1, Feb 13, 2011.

  1. crane operator

    crane operator Senior Member

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    Ditto with what big Iron is saying. The only way this happened is if it did only weigh 52-53,000 on the scale in the cab. Typically the lmi's show 2-3000lbs of preload weight (block, ball, stowed jib) so he may only have had 50,000 of crawler picked up. If it was actually 63,000, I don't think that crane would have picked it up. He wouldn't have had the chart to do it, and override switches don't keep you from breaking it, the chart would be all structural in that close. Be glad you're not on the news. Anyone else bothered by the lack of any cribbing under the outriggers, on that dirt, with a load like that? Anyone not think he had to hit the override to make the pick?
     
  2. crane operator

    crane operator Senior Member

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    In the operators defence also, That is a tms 750- which has more ctw. and a better chart than the at 700 your using in your calculations.
     
  3. willie59

    willie59 Administrator

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    crane operator, with all due respect, and I do respect you, but an operator that set his rig up over the side, even if it was a 100 ton, to attempt a lift like that has no operating defense. :tong
     
  4. Big Iron

    Big Iron Well-Known Member

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    my CALCULATIONS were guess's at best with what little info was given the 750 chart i read was not any better (chart from the NCCCO website as I couldn't find it on the Grove site)its still in the 39,4 to 43,0# range using 40 to 50 ft of boom. regardless he was still way to far out to make a safe lift!
     
  5. BradyHill1

    BradyHill1 Well-Known Member

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    here's a picture of the ticket when it was unloaded at the scrap yard
     

    Attached Files:

  6. crane operator

    crane operator Senior Member

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    You're right Big Iron, the chart isn't any better. I'm sure the scrap yard scale is right, they pay by the pound and I don't think they're going to overpay. I can't believe he got it up and on that trailer. I used to run a TMS 870, and it would have had its hands full with that weight. I guess I was really hoping that it only weighed 50, then if he was good for 44, we were all seeing pictures of a crane at 100% lift capacity. Not a good situation, but he wouldn't be the first operator to calculate his extra 15% from the seat. What the pictures are actually showing us is a crane at 140-160% over chart, a truly scary situation. If this was my crane and operator, his next job would be in the unemployment line. Cranes are expensive and people are priceless. (And yes, Atco, he should have backed up, but some operators are offended when they're told they do their best work over the rear.:))
     
  7. Buckethead

    Buckethead Senior Member

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    It's really easy to sit behind a computer in the comfort of your home and say that an operator is not good. Especially if you have never actually made a living in the seat of a crane. The reality is, if that operator said, "I need a bigger rig, not going to make this pick" maybe he would have been laid off. I don't know how the economy is where they are, or how much unemployment pays, I don't know what that operator's situation is so I am not going to judge him.
     
  8. BradyHill1

    BradyHill1 Well-Known Member

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    I'm not doubting the crane operator's ability to operate the crane, the older operator told him he needed to back up to the junk crane and he just had to pick it up on the side to show him that he could lift it that way. If I was his boss I would change his attitude or he would go in the unemployment line, nothing to do with his ability to operate the crane. Then again, I'm not a crane operator, so I don't really know how good of an operator he really is. He did get it loaded and didn't tear anything up so that's a thumbs up for him on one thing.
     
  9. willie59

    willie59 Administrator

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    Hi Buckethead, I don't think any of us were necessarily judging the operator, more like pointing out the obvious. There are a number of us here that have and still do make our living in the seat of a crane, and some of us doing crane hire the way this operator was. An experienced operator would not have even waisted his time to set up his rig to attempt that lift over the side because of obvious reasons, 1) there's no doubt the machine is heavy and, 2) an experienced operator knows his greatest lifting capacity is over the rear.

    Moreover, if you're a crane hire operator, you are aware that every job you pull up on is one that someone is paying you (your company) big bucks per hour to have you there. You know that if you lollygag around and are percieved as "wasting time" by the customer, your company is going to get a call contesting the bill, which will drag you into the office for a sit down. With this in mind, you pull up on a job and make an assessment of the best way to set up your rig and the quickest way to get the job done with no incidents. The last thing that would enter your mind would be to set up over the side, just a foolish waste of time. :)
     
  10. John C.

    John C. Senior Member

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    Having just a little experience on cranes and having seen the aftermath of more than one "accident", I would have to say that the operator put the company he worked for in serious jeopardy by lifting outside the load chart. Had there been an accident at the time of lift, the state and local safety officials would have found the operator at the least unqualified to operate the machine, and at the worst criminally liable for negligence. Ability means knowing all that needs to be known about safe operation of the machine. It doesn't just mean knowing how to start the engine and make the machine move. Now that the crane has been stressed at its structural limits, it will need to be inspected and certified again.

    All the quality crane hire companies I've dealt with had someone other than the operator making the decision as to how big the crane needed to be and how and where to set it up. Operators did have the power to shutdown a job for safety issues and there are state and federal agencies that can be contacted if personnel are mistreated for being safe.

    The operator needs more training on safe crane operation!
     
  11. Tiny

    Tiny Senior Member

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    Thats the trouble with that whole situation , What stresses will show up later . Could the thing have been weakened somewhere that will show up the next time he picks up a man basket??

    The crane owners may never know what happened if the operator keeps his mouth shut
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2011
  12. Impact

    Impact Senior Member

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    I've always thought that if a crane ever picked up half it's rated capacity you best be really careful. 50 ton crane picking up 50,000 pounds......Everything better be perfect...
     
  13. qball

    qball Senior Member

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    i have run cranes, a bunch of them. the one and only rule is THE CHARTS DON'T LIE.
    you, as operator, can be held civilly and CRIMINALLY responsible if and when someone is hurt or killed due to your negligence.
    these newer cranes are usually charted STRUCTURALLY. stability is not the issue.
    on an old, overbuilt friction rig, you could walk a load out, get 'er a little light, and it was usually ok.
    now, you can and will fold a boom up like paper.
    i have seen it more than once.
     
  14. Big Iron

    Big Iron Well-Known Member

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    your right about the armchair QB, however i did make my living sitting in the seat of every thing from 20 tn squirt booms to 450 tn lattice boom rigs starting in the mid 60's and ending in 2000 when my eyes got bad enough to call it quits (i made that decision no one else and still get calls to come operate friction rigs several times a year). my comments were not to degrade anyone but to offer insight to operators who will be put in that position sometime in their career. i don't know about the rest of you but i would much rather be recieving an unemployment check than living with the fact i killed someone because i was afraid of losing my job.
    Big Iron
     
  15. Lugghead

    Lugghead Well-Known Member

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    This is EXACTLY the problem!! In fact, its one of the biggest concerns I have when I run a rental rig. I ALWAYS do a thorough inspection whenever I get into a rental rig. Turning the key to get today's work done, can be hazardous to not only 'your' health but also the guy that's running the rig behind you............
     
  16. Buckethead

    Buckethead Senior Member

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    Yes you are right, both you and Qball. I have been in that situation of refusing to do something unsafe, especially with Lulls. I did sleep better knowing I would NOT be the one to hurt/kill someone, and another job always came along. I am in a position to say 'no' if I really have to because unemployment is fair here, and there are lots of contractors to work for, I don't know if the operator of the Grove in those pics is as lucky as I am, in that regard. Just before I read this thread I was watching equipment videos on youtube and the ignorance of people's comments about equipment is unbelievable. So I probably overreacted a little.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2011
  17. willie59

    willie59 Administrator

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    No worries Buckethead. Those of us who have been, or are, crane operators know just how serious these machines and the job is. Any piece of equipment can cause injury, death, or property damage. As crane operators, we are aware of the unique thing that cranes do, lift things over persons and property. When things go bad with a crane lift, it typically is just that...bad.

    There are a number of things an operator has to be aware of and are responsible for; how to set up the rig, placement of outriggers and pads, how to prepare the rig for the load being lifted, and if he doesn't have riggers, the operator has to know how to properly rig the load. And it's his duty and responsiblity to do all this right, make the lift, without doing any damage or injury. To operate one in a foolish manner is ridiculous. Cranes aren't very forgiving to those who don't respect the machine. ;)
     
  18. heavylift

    heavylift Senior Member

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    I've pretty much always considered the 5 to 10 and maybe the 15 foot radius impractical for use.. in most every case... I would think companies would stress the fact that the crane is not as big as it seems...

    if someone wants a 50 ton crane then send one that the chart will lift 50 tons at 15 feet or 20 feet...

    I have been sent to a lift a propane tank.. 35 ton crane... 35 ton tank.. didn't happen until another crane showed up to to a 2 crane lift..
    that's happens when office help rent cranes over the phone..

    office help is the worst