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High Hydraulic Flow Compact Wheel Loader - CASE 321F vs VOLVO L35G

Discussion in 'Compact Wheel Loaders' started by HighFlyerAK, Jan 18, 2015.

  1. HighFlyerAK

    HighFlyerAK Member

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Location:
    Alaska
    Hi everyone here in this forum!

    I am in the process of purchasing a Compact Wheel Loader, and, due to my location where I live (Alaska), the CASE or the VOLVO seem to be final candidates.
    I am a property owner with a full-time job and this equipment is supposed to be my 'Swiss Knive' for the different types of heavy equipment work I plan on doing myself, rather than paying a contractor.
    What it needs to do:
    Auger for fence posts, 2,400ft worth of it;
    Trencher for 900+ft of power line/water lines;
    Mulcher to clean up brush and small trees in wooded area;
    Bucket of course for moving dirt/gravel;
    Fork for miscellaneous;
    Snow-blower to keep 1,000ft of drive way and walk ways free;
    Log Grapple to move 20 yrds of logs around;

    Now! Most of the attachments require high hydraulic flow, somewhere ~20-25gpm and up, some, like the mulcher, would want 34gpm;
    I have a quote for the 321F, which, depending on the manufacturer, does vary of course.
    I am aware of a skid-steer having higher hydraulic flow for the attachments available due to their size, but the size of my property and the amount of dirt, logs, etc. I am planning on moving would not make it feasible (for me).

    VOLVO with 29gpm and 13,779lbs operating weight,
    CASE with 34.3gpm and 12,727lbs operating weight;

    I am leaning more towards the VOLVO, but am afraid the 5gpm could make a difference, although I could see myself working with it.

    Anyone finding DEERE 324 or 344, CAT 907 or 908 a better options? Those both would have dealerships in the area, or at least within 100miles.

    So I am looking for inputs on any level, since spending 100+k on equipment is only possible with a loan, and I am trying to make the most informed decision possible.

    That would be where all of you 'oldtimers' & 'experts' come in to ask to share your knowledge of using.

    Thanks,
    Andreas
     
  2. KSSS

    KSSS Senior Member

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    Occupation:
    excavation
    Location:
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    The 321F is a nice wheel loader. I have rented them before and they are popular here. I don't think the 5 gpm will matter either way, however you don't see a lot guys hanging mulchers off of these machines of any brand. I am not sure the OEMs have built these with that in mind. It matters in the sense that while flow is important so is PSI with mulchers, as well as valving in the hydraulics. That may be a question to pose to your sales guys. I would make sure that they will provide the needed support to run a mulcher, also check warranty, some OEMs will kill your warranty if you mulch with it. Read the fine print, if they say it is covered get it in writing. I think personally I would try and get by with a commercial rotary mower like Davco or Diamond. They are not as demanding and may provide what your looking for in capability. As far as the other tasks, they are absolutely in the wheel house of a compact wheel loader. Wacker Neuson makes wheel loaders with high flow in mind and since Europe has been in the compact wheel loader business for a long time, they have it well in hand. If you have some dealer support, I would absolutely look in their wheel loader. I rented one of these as well. They have a four wheel steer loader that is outstanding.
     
  3. HighFlyerAK

    HighFlyerAK Member

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Alaska
    Wacker Neuson - Very interesting

    Excellent - Thank you for your reply!

    I just wrote a bunch of thoughts down, only to discover that I lost it all when trying to post it :Banghead

    I did some reading and research on the Wacker Neuson, and I have to say I really do like it. Comparing to VOLVO, CASE or CAT, it appears that the WL37 is substantial smaller and lighter, which might not be that great when it comes to bucket break out force or bucket size. I have found a couple, either new or less than 100hrs used, for around 65-60k, which would most definitely make a difference when it comes to buy attachments.
    I found a dealer in Anchorage, and hopefully they do sell them.

    CWL comparison.jpg

    Also, Thanks for the thoughts on the mulcher. I agree, and I also have been told by a few other people that a mulcher is a very 'hydraulic-hungry' attachements.
    I did NOT know that it is/can be a warranty issue when using a mulcher. Something so far every sales person has kept secret from me, despite knowing exactly what attachments I am planning on using.

    On another note - Anyone willing to share their opinion on Tier 4/Final? Keeping in mind I am not using it commercial or in a city (if that matters)

    And last - How many are out there, doing what I am planning on doing already - Using a compact wheel loader with a wide range of attachments!

    Cheers,
    Andreas
     
  4. mikebramel

    mikebramel Senior Member

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    Location:
    milwaukee
    The flow specs you are quoting are at maximum engine speed. Make sure that the hydrostatic transmissions can be operated independently likea skid loader and not have the imitation torque converter valving. Also make sure that the machine had a adequate tank and cooler for the work you are doing
     
  5. HighFlyerAK

    HighFlyerAK Member

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Alaska
    Mike,

    You just threw a fair amount of technical stuff at me - Let me see I got it right please.
    I am assuming you are referring to something like a 'inch valve', or the ability to run the attachment hydraulic pump high or independent from the drivetrain?
    I don't know what the 'imitation torque converter' is - And, are they common or do only certain brands/models have them?
    I am sure you are referring to the hydraulic fluid reservoir/tank and cooler - Can you give a rule-of-thumb for what would be adequate please?

    Thanks,
    Andreas
     
  6. HighFlyerAK

    HighFlyerAK Member

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Alaska
    Mike,

    You just threw a fair amount of technical stuff at me - Let me see if I got it right please.
    I am assuming you are referring to something like a 'inch valve', or the ability to run the attachment hydraulic pump high or independent from the drive-train?
    I don't know what the 'imitation torque converter' is - And, are they common or do only certain brands/models have them? What's the best, most healthiest option to achieve maximum hydraulic pressure, with the least wear on the equipment?

    I am sure you are referring to the hydraulic fluid reservoir/tank and cooler - Can you give a rule-of-thumb for what would be adequate please?

    Thanks,
    Andreas
     
  7. Tones

    Tones Senior Member

    Joined:
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    Occupation:
    land clearing contractor
    Location:
    Ubique
    If you really want a do everything machine then check out the Fecon RTF230. It can drive Mulchers front and back, snow blowers, And just about anything your imagination and pocket will allow.
     
  8. HighFlyerAK

    HighFlyerAK Member

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Alaska
    I love it! But I could never afford it!

    Well, I got excited for a very brief moment here - until I heard the price.
    This is truly an amazing machine and with almost 14k lbs no real reason why it couldn't play with the big 'boys'! Wow!!!
    When I read it's specs - 230hp, 75gpm high flow, 3 steering options.. Makes me wish to win the lottery - WHAT A BEAST!
    But, unfortunately, it is so far out there - the machine only, without the mulcher, goes for 230k hard earned dollars. WOW!
    300k if you buy the mulcher with it.. the mulcher alone costs as much as some CWL's

    Thanks for the suggestion though!

    Currently, I am waiting for an email back from the Wacker Neuson sales guy, excited to see what he has to say.

    Thanks..

    Fecon-RTF230-Rubber-Tired-Mulching-Tractor.jpg
     
  9. alaskaforby4

    alaskaforby4 Senior Member

    Joined:
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    Owner Operator
    Location:
    Alaska
    Sounds like a very big purchase, although it may suit your needs and pay itself off in the long run and provide you with many hours of enjoyment.

    I think paying your contractor would be the best bet. For 100k I would be more than happy to dig you some fence posts and install those water and powerlines! I'll even throw in a few years of snowplowing :D I still dont have a answer for your mulching needs though, isn't there a "tree expert" close by you could call hahaha

    Have you looked into a Skid Steer? The price of all those attachments are going to be astronomical. I haven't priced it, but imagine you could get most of those attachments on a high-flow enclosed skid for 100K instead of just the machine.

    Good luck!
    Sam
     
  10. HighFlyerAK

    HighFlyerAK Member

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Alaska
    Hi Sam!

    The funny thing is - my neighbor is a guy who runs a big landscape/tree removal business. Only thing is, he has 46 court cases against him for various work related issues and is even on a two year debarment/suspension list for contracts with the government and the borough.
    So I won't be able to take advantage of that, unless i want to spend time, money and aggravation in court.
    Regardless, I have had work done with a local contractor, and his work is not only flawless but also priced very fair, I don't have the luxury of using him though, due to my schedule and his workload in the summer, since I juggle my own job aside of working on developing my property.
    I did the math, and considering I can work at night or on random days (AK doesn't have much of a daylight issue in the summer, as you most likely very well know) or anytime I don't have to work my main job, it will pay off at the end. Especially the snowblower in the winter, which could make a few bucks here and there.

    I DID just get a quote for a Wacker Neuson WL37, which might be a quite interesting option. Downside - 8,223lbs GW, a break-out force of (only) 8,768lbs, but 33gpm with the high hydraulic option and 77.8hp engine.
    Also, it is quite small in size - 5'8" wide / 16' long / 7'6" high - most likely good for maneuvering, not so great when lifting logs or the only 0.78yd bucket of course - But I guess that's where I have to figure out if it is worth it.
    They do offer all the attachments I asked for, not too bad priced either.

    I am not sure which direction I am going at this point.

    One big question I suppose to be answered...

    Equipment size/weight vs. hydraulic flow capabilities!

    And 'Yes' - I have been going back looking at the skid steer option numerous times already (I have worked a skid steer for a week straight on a drive way project), but I am just really liking the wheel-loader for it's visibility, clearance and cabin comfort.

    Thanks for your input, nice to see a fellow AK'n around here!

    Andreas
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2015
  11. mikebramel

    mikebramel Senior Member

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    You will have to operate the machines to find out whether they will operate correctly for your application. I don't know specifics on each
     
  12. Tones

    Tones Senior Member

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    Occupation:
    land clearing contractor
    Location:
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    There is one of these machines for sale www.machinerytrader.com Looks a good price if you're handy with the tools
     
  13. HighFlyerAK

    HighFlyerAK Member

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    Location:
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    Yes - I called the company who is selling it.
    Apparently, it was on display on a trade-show and someone drove it into a bridge, which took care of hydraulics, cabin and some miscellaneous.
    I really would love to go after it, but since this thing is on the east coast and the sales man wasn't thrilled or motivated at all to provide me with more detailed photos and descriptions of damaged parts - I will have to pass :(
    But definitely very interesting!!! Thanks for the tip

    Cheers
     
  14. gearhead82

    gearhead82 Member

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    Location:
    NC
    WN has several versions with high flow and higher capacity than the WL37. WL52 (33gpm) and WL60 (40gpm) are their 1.25yd and 1.5yd capacity machines.
     
  15. HighFlyerAK

    HighFlyerAK Member

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    Interesting - I have already started looking into those as well, only there are very few to find, no surprise none in AK.
    But definitely worth to keep looking for them - Thanks again!
    Any suggestions as in what auctions or other places might be helpful?
    The more people I get to talk to, the more I find out that those who have been in the business for a while, know exactly where to go to for getting used equipment.
    Any suggestions?!


    Thanks
     
  16. KSSS

    KSSS Senior Member

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    The WL60 was just released and is just getting into the pipeline so to speak. I believe that the 60 will have the most usability from an excavation contractor stand point. However if loading trucks is not important to you than the WL50 would be an excellent machine, they are way more comfortable than any skid steer. There are a lot of pluses with the wheel loaders and some negatives, but if the WL will do what you need it to same as SSL, I would go with the WL.
     
  17. HighFlyerAK

    HighFlyerAK Member

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    I did look into the WL 50, after you mentioned in your post. Unfortunately, it comes only with 17gpm. I do not know if high hydraulic flow is an option and how much it would be.
    I am still convinced that a compact wheel loader is the way I want to go. At least that I know so far.
    WL50 Specs.jpg
     
  18. KSSS

    KSSS Senior Member

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    The HF version of the WL50 is called a WL52 and it will be released later this year. It will have 33 gpm. So this is not an option if you interested in getting something immediately.