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Here we go again 140M DOWN

Discussion in 'Motor Graders' started by 20/80, Aug 31, 2016.

  1. Nige

    Nige Senior Member

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    I'll echo what CM said. Oil analysis interpretation is a bit like playing the Stock Market. It's all about picking out subtle underlying trends rather than looking at one result in isolation as a Go/No-Go thing.

    One negative result/analysis/interpretation does NOT generally indicate to me that things are going South. Usually the first words out of my mouth in those cases are - "Let's just get another sample and confirm that"
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2019
  2. 20/80

    20/80 Senior Member

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    Thanks guy's good info, well I was in our mechanical branch today to get a up date on our 140m and to my surprise the whole machine is completely tore apart including the mouldboard doors and engine, its looking like a reman motor is being put back in, the stock engine is toast, after pulling the engine the mechanic deemed the engine gone after a series of tests (11000hrs) and this engine was rebuilt at around 700hrs under warranty, now how long its going to take to get all the parts needed and put everything back together is the question, i'm thinking 5 weeks minimum if i'm lucky.
     
  3. Fatgraderman

    Fatgraderman Well-Known Member

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    What does CAT do when they ReMan C7’s? Do they repair sleeve the worst bores? Do some of those get a 020 overbore?
     
  4. 20/80

    20/80 Senior Member

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    Not sure but it is a complete engine, nothing off your old motor has to be used, this is a none DEF motor, $55,000 with 1 year warranty only, the money that was spent on this M series grader to keep it going is unbelievable, that's not including down time, I would never ever buy a M series for a company, you would go bankrupt, i'm hoping the new 140 series are a better machine.
     
  5. Birken Vogt

    Birken Vogt Charter Member

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    What do you get for $55k, a motor in a crate or full service installation?
     
  6. 20/80

    20/80 Senior Member

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    Just a motor in a crate, another 10k cost plus for full service installation, this engine is the updated version of the C7, what ever that means.
     
  7. Fatgraderman

    Fatgraderman Well-Known Member

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    $55000 seems like a lot for that engine but I’ve seen engines come in complete with new engine harness and ECU. One even came in with the DPF. The C7 (and that family of engine) are parent bore engines- there’s no liners. It’s a cast in bore like Cummins 5.9’s, CAT 3208’s and 3204’s. I thought somebody on here might know what CAT prefers to do when they reman them.
    As far as the 140m goes, they weren’t the only ones trying to get things sorted out. Seems like there were a few machines from that time period trying to get things sorted out. I ran a Volvo grader from around that time, and It sure had it’s share of issues. Almost seemed like new factories learning how to make a lot of things. Not understanding clutch drum hardness, or how to make electrical components that stand up.
     
  8. 20/80

    20/80 Senior Member

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    Yep, 55k is a lot for a reman, I run a 2007 140h and this m series is a 2008, hard to believe how bad these M series are in 2008 where the 2007 H series was almost bullet proof, somebody at Cat screwed up, these M series should be flawless for the amount of money you pay for one, it seems Cats moto is just sell the machine fix it in the field, but down time costs owners big money, Cat does not care it seems.
     
  9. Birken Vogt

    Birken Vogt Charter Member

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    Is that motor cost including core charge or is that extra?
     
  10. 20/80

    20/80 Senior Member

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    I believe that's extra.
     
  11. Nige

    Nige Senior Member

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    Core charge usually comes in the selling price and is refunded later once Parts Dept confirm that the component qualifies as a Core.
     
  12. Mobiltech

    Mobiltech Senior Member

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    Just for fun I looked up a complete reman engine for a B9d 140m. Number came up as 20R5310.
    Priced at $46207.23 and a $16116.00 core credit. Total $62323.00 before core return.
    I’m sure if you worked with your dealer they could shave a little off that price.
     
  13. 20/80

    20/80 Senior Member

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    Thank you, I will pass your info on.
     
  14. Vetech63

    Vetech63 Senior Member

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    55K......for a complete rebuilt engine!? :eek:o_O I didn't read up on the thread but what was the reason for not rebuilding the original engine?
     
    mg2361 likes this.
  15. Nige

    Nige Senior Member

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    Remember these guys are talking CAD here, not USD. Although even applying the rate conversion it's pricey compared to the US which shows high 20's plus 10k Core Deposit for the same Part Number.
    Our local dealer can't due a complete zero hours rebuild on an engine for less than the price of a Reman one these days.........
    I'd love to be able to buy Reman engines for $55k, ours are in the region of 4 times that.....!! (they are a bit bigger though)
     
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  16. 20/80

    20/80 Senior Member

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    Not sure the reason but the stock engine was toast and was rebuilt once already, my best guess is it came down to cost and time frame, we need the machine like ASAP, There was a reman sitting at Cat ready to drop in, we had it sitting on our shops floor in a day.
     
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  17. Nige

    Nige Senior Member

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    I was thinking the same. 100% parts availability that you need for an engine rebuild is usually never the case when you ask for the parts. Also when the parts list is dependent on someone's opinion to generate there will always be the items that you only find you need when the component is torn down that nobody thought of at the time the parts list was made. Then the rebuild is stopped waiting for them.
     
  18. Birken Vogt

    Birken Vogt Charter Member

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    How much down time do you guys usually figure on if you do an in-shop rebuild of an engine like this and have to wait here and there for this or that extra part?

    I only do oddball engines, but smaller and simpler, and want to see what the ballpark is.
     
  19. Nige

    Nige Senior Member

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    Remember I am usually in the a$$hole of nowhere and the logistic pipeline can be long and convoluted. As an example "urgent air freight" would be likely around the 14 days timeline provided parts were available at the supplier. That's how much you get kicked in the a$$ for that $20 part that nobody thought to order when they made the parts list for the component rebuild and what makes the Reman "drop in" option so attractive. For all major components we also have an installation kit that is ordered at the same time as the Reman component.

    We don't rebuild any components, they all go outside one way or another. Strip, quote, approve, rebuild & test a component it would be unlikely to come in under 90 days, again provided parts were available. We've had turnaround times up to 9 months for components being rebuilt that needed unforeseen parts when they were torn down.
     
  20. 20/80

    20/80 Senior Member

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    Well we are into week 2 now with the reman still sitting on the floor to be put in, there is some kind of a o ring that is needed to be put in place before the engine can be set in, we just got the o ring from Cat today, so there is parts that are not thought of even with a drop in sitting there, i'm thinking by the end of December this machine should be up and running unless something else comes up to delay things further, this is a bad time of year to get parts shipped, major delay's with the holiday rush.