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Help new 289C choppy and unresponcive

Deeretime

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2009
Messages
344
Location
High River Alberta
Occupation
superintendent
Hey I have alot of experience with the ctl's on the market and finaly got enough hrs on the Gehl ctl 80 to buy a new 289c.
I loved the 257b the 262B the 287B, so how could Cat screw up their new machines?
Electric over hydraulic controlls. Why would they change them on a skidsteer instead of using such a simple design? is it to get away from the oil leaking out of the piolet controlls?

I love the machine all around from the suspended u/c to the quiet cab to the pushing power, But i will be hard pressed to be as precise or as acurate with that machine as i would be with the B's or the Gehl.
It pushes fine but has a huge lul when it realy gets bogged down then it starts to pick back up slowly, and its not that the engine is working hard it feels like a delay in a selonoid.

Are the c series destend to be bad apples or is there some tuneing that i can get finning to do that will improve this toiolet!
 

Deeretime

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2009
Messages
344
Location
High River Alberta
Occupation
superintendent
Trying that tomorrow. The trouble is that i dont run it and the guys that do are decent oporators but they never agree on what they need that machine to preform like. Any ideas Why cat went to this system? I had never had any major problems with piolet controlls other than a bit of oil sweating off them once and a while but i would much rather have that !
 

KSSS

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Feb 27, 2005
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4,319
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Idaho
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excavation
E/H gives you a lot more abilities than does pilots. Like the ability to adjust sensitivity, speed of the controls, change the pattern with the push of a button, it also interfaces with electronic controlled engines which as the tier complience continues rolling higher becomes more important. Nearly everyone is getting on the E/H bandwagon, there will be no option before long. I doubt that CAT will make you happy with the E/H like you were with the pilots. Unfortunately you will need to adjust to the machine.
 

toomuchtime

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2010
Messages
49
Location
California
You can control the responsiveness from the comm center. It's really easy so easy I don't remember how right now lol. Cat will show you.
 

Deeretime

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2009
Messages
344
Location
High River Alberta
Occupation
superintendent
I have been re ajusting the machine controls based on the 3 settings and it either goes to fast or wayyy to slow for me.
Pi$$es me off that my old machine will out work this $85,000 new one!
 

deerefan

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Joined
Nov 2, 2010
Messages
88
Location
northern wisconsin
Occupation
operator
On our 299c, we had cat adjust them to, bucket was wey to slow and some other stuff, freakin perfect now!
 

Deeretime

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2009
Messages
344
Location
High River Alberta
Occupation
superintendent
Deerefan

do you think that your 299 is as good as say a 333D with pilot controlls, as in its responciveness and its controll
 

deerefan

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Joined
Nov 2, 2010
Messages
88
Location
northern wisconsin
Occupation
operator
Now as u can see by my name im a deerefan haha, but I can't notice any difference at all in the control, except the bucket dumb was slow but they adjusted it. All we do with it is leveling or fine grade work and its the same to me if not better I can notice a difference at all, I think cat pretty much has the skid steer or ctl market locked up, if a guy could afford it I think everone would go with a cat, we tried the 333d and a t870 imo the cat had them beat easily, in power, visibilty, and comfort, plus the 870 is like runnin around in a house, and I didn't like the visibility in the deere at all, even though im a deere guy, the 299 is the only machine we have that's not a jd
 

dave esterns

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2010
Messages
597
Location
madison
hahaha, cat has the ctl and skid steer market locked up?! thats funny. ah, the big selling point for me with a cat would be the standard 3 year warranty... or did they do away with that?
 

deerefan

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Joined
Nov 2, 2010
Messages
88
Location
northern wisconsin
Occupation
operator
I guess I wouldn't say locked up because obviously everybody else is still makin there's just imo there easily the best machine, I dint even to they were elec. Over hyd. Till I was readin the brochure after we tried it out. I didn't no any difference at all. And yup to my knowledge u still get the warranty, hell for that kinda money u should at least get a lap dance ur somethin, I mean 75g's for a dam skid steer!
 

ddslinde

New Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2011
Messages
3
Location
MN
E/H gives you a lot more abilities than does pilots. Like the ability to adjust sensitivity, speed of the controls, change the pattern with the push of a button, it also interfaces with electronic controlled engines which as the tier complience continues rolling higher becomes more important. Nearly everyone is getting on the E/H bandwagon, there will be no option before long. I doubt that CAT will make you happy with the E/H like you were with the pilots. Unfortunately you will need to adjust to the machine.

Not everyone is on the E/H bandwagon. Kubota just came out with their SVL line 2 years ago and opted to use pilots. I believe that Tak/Gehl/Mustang are still pilots as well. I do agree that if you want the best feel and sensitivity, pilot controls are the only way to go.
 

KSSS

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Not everyone is on the E/H bandwagon. Kubota just came out with their SVL line 2 years ago and opted to use pilots. I believe that Tak/Gehl/Mustang are still pilots as well. I do agree that if you want the best feel and sensitivity, pilot controls are the only way to go.

As the machines adapt to electronic engine control, E/H will become more necessary. I belive that the new TK machines do have more electronics in them. I am not sure what Gehl/Mustang is doing, but I will doubt anyone will be using pilots before long. Properly done EH is nice, at least to run IMHO. What it will take to keep it running after5-10 years I am not sure. Certainly not as simple or as cheap to maintain as pilot controls.
 

durallymax

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2011
Messages
666
Location
Wi
I think with the new generation CAT is coming with that will be completely electronic, things will get much better. Once the engine and controls can truely talk to each other on what they need to do it will be much much better.

There is absolutely no reason that something as simple as a skid steer control cannot be tweaked to the preciseness of any of the fingertip electronic controls our tractors, combine and Forage harvester have. Everything is fly by wire in them and has been for the past few years.

The problem is the transition period and growing pains and the thought of "just how much do you stick into a skid steer". 10 years ago we were happy to have a cab with heat. Now we have seat heater, molded in radios, pressurized cabs and everything else you would find in a bigger loader. If you told somebody in 2000 that their skid steer would cost $45,000 they wouldn't even think to buy it, today its understandable and acceptable.


I noticed a big change going from our 2011 262C to our new 262C2. The response was much better. Then i started driving some of our B series around and when i jumped back in the C series it was a more noticeable, but it wasn't until somebody else complained that the controls sucked that i really started thinking about it too much and getting pissed off at them. I had to just quit at one point because the motion sickness was too bad from being sealed in a tight area, feeling like you have no control and it being dark outside. When are they going to put side lights on these things and when are they going to put lights under the cab that activate when the boom is raised, why not put a set of lights on the boom so you can see up there.

I realize this thread is old, but to those reading, you can take your machine back to CAT to have them recalibrate the controls even if you have AMICS. The AMICS essentially from my experience just changes when the controls activates. Think of it like the diagrams below. Assume the diagram is the side to side movement of the joystick. 0 represents no action, 3 is the most and everything in between obviously. This is the way it feels to me when i change between settings. It doesnt seem to ever give you more range of control, just moves the dead space from one side to the other. Instead of having to move the stick all the way over you only have to move it a little bit, but if you move it all the way over you are already maxed out. This is why when running the machine all the way up and slapping the sticks full boar in every direction makes the machine very uncontrollable.

Heres the way it feels.

One Bar: 3210000000-0000000123

Two Bars: 3333210000-0000123333

Three Bars: 3333333321-1233333333


Honestly if it wasn't for all of the advantages to the C series I think I would stay with the B series and their pilots because of how much crisper they are, but the comfort, visibility, and quietness of the C series keeps you in the seat despite the control downsides.


Hopefully they get the issues worked out soon. It shouldn't be too hard. It sounds like there are some big changes coming for their lineup, from the sounds of it they listened to customers and addressed the complaints. Hopefully they turn out well.
 

Landclearer

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Joined
Oct 3, 2012
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Southeast
Hi Deertime,

I am sorry to hear you are having trouble with your 289. We traded our 257 in on a 289 and found the same problems you have. The machine spent more time in the shop than it did on the job. We had factory guys come out and nothing helped. Once Cat and the dealer pretty much gave up and said that that it is what it is, we sold iron Iron Planet and got a Kubota SVL 95 and love it. Tons of power, comfortable cab and super responsive. Unfortunately I think it is another example of Cat ruining something good(pilot controls) with electronics.
 

durallymax

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Jun 10, 2011
Messages
666
Location
Wi
Hi Deertime,
Unfortunately I think it is another example of Cat ruining something good(pilot controls) with electronics.

That is true to an extent. However somebody had to take the fall. It's going to be too hard for OEM's to provide what the customer and EPA wants with pilot controls. Take the C series cab. Controls mounted to the air ride seat adjustable for the operator. A cab that is completely sealed and flips up as one unit. Look how much quieter and cleaner the cab is. you can't do that as economically with the pilots. CAT jumped the gun and took the heat. However I still don't get how I can go run any of our tractors and have instant response and control out of all of the functions yet something as simple as a skid steer is so slow. Maybe it truely is in the speed of the electronics and its time for some faster computers to go into these machines.
 

Digdeep

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2007
Messages
704
Location
Wisconsin
I think bobcat took the fall first with their EH controls, but just as kiss stated earlier, everyone will be making the move soon due to all of the electronics coming out in conjunction with the engine requirements. I'm sure someone once said that pilots would never take hold because hand and foot controls were so much better.
 

durallymax

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2011
Messages
666
Location
Wi
I think bobcat took the fall first with their EH controls, but just as kiss stated earlier, everyone will be making the move soon due to all of the electronics coming out in conjunction with the engine requirements. I'm sure someone once said that pilots would never take hold because hand and foot controls were so much better.

They still left them an option though, the dealers around here will try their hardest to talk you out of them if the $2,400 price tag didnt.
 

KSSS

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2005
Messages
4,319
Location
Idaho
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excavation
While I wont say that CASE has the EH thing mastered, I will say that their system is impressive. The machine is adjustable in the drive, lift and tilt with four presets for speed of reaction and sensitivity. They did a pretty good job. There is no shutter like there is with CAT EH (both use Rexroth EH). So far mine has been flawless, although initially when they released the Alpha machines there were some issues. As this technology progresses it will get more reliable and user friendly, hopefully.
 
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