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Help me stay alive building road with TD-18

Discussion in 'Dozers' started by chevy43, Jun 3, 2016.

  1. chevy43

    chevy43 Well-Known Member

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    I'm cutting this road on a steep slope. it is hot out and the ground is dry. Would it be safer with the ground more moist?

    I'm not sure how you can stay off the fill before finishing the cut. It makes me very uneasy watching the outer track on that fill! I'm cutting about as deep as I can.

    I need some pointers from those who know more. This is my first time on a steep slope and I'm just a hobby guy with an old dozer. I'm more than half way to the bottom of the creek and have about 150 feet of road to go and about 30 feet down. That outside turn was the scariest so far.
     

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  2. chevy43

    chevy43 Well-Known Member

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    Now all I have left is a straight run but the side slope is about the steepest yet. I estimate it is at leas 1 to 1 and maybe a little more as I get to the creek bottom. May be nothing to an experienced operator but it is intimidating to me.
     

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  3. JBGASH

    JBGASH Senior Member

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    Looking like you are doing ok from the pics , no easy way when steep.
     
  4. RonG

    RonG Charter Member

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    Just keep cutting the high side so you have plenty of material to work with.I see no grade stakes to intimidate you....lol....so you are at your own mercy.Look at my posts in "old iron" where I did the grading around a new school for the german nationals with a TD-18,there were some steep grades there too.Have fun.Ron G
     
  5. Scrub Puller

    Scrub Puller Senior Member

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    Yair . . .

    chevy43 If that is to be a permanent access road you really need the whole running surface on cut.

    Even in a low rainfall area side cast fill is very likely to slip during any rain event.

    It is always better to have the tractor/road surface leaning into the hill and we always cut an intersection drain at the toe of the vertical slope to intersect the water flow and direct it to over the road concrete culverts or under the road pipes . . . woo-boys can help as a temporary measure, anything to shed and dissipate water.

    You look to be doing very well without the assistance of a ripper and I must say side hill cuts were my favourite dozer job.

    Cheers.
     
  6. fast_st

    fast_st Senior Member

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    I'd hang with Scrub Puller, its central cal so you only get a bit of rain in winter but you still want to control it. Add another 50% width into the hill side, ditch on the uphill side and you could probably use 4" plastic as your culverts.

    Keep sending pics, looks like a great job!
     
  7. chevy43

    chevy43 Well-Known Member

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    The road is really just for a jeep etc to get to the lower part of the property. If it's raining I'm not going down there. The brush is so thick I had to crawl like a pig to get down there to even guess where to point the dozer. I have to stand on top of the dozer and memorize trees and bushes to know about where I wanted to go.

    I got a good tilt into the hill until I got to the right curve. Cutting a curve is hard especially with the big B&E push arm rubbing the side of the hill holding the blade away from the cut.

    I like IH's. The Scout Terra is my every day driver and service truck. I put a 5.9 Cummins in it.
     

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  8. chevy43

    chevy43 Well-Known Member

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    You guys are right about drainage. I'm not sure how I'm going to handle that yet. It takes a sledge hammer, High Low jack, block of wood, pry bar and 20 min of hard work to adjust the blade on the B&E so I may worry about contour with a mini excavator.

    Trying to explore where to put the road was a big chalange. I tried with the TD-18 but if I just poked around without cutting a road it slide sideways on top of the brush! Then I tried pushing in there with my 3,500 LB articulated Pasquli tractor and the brush lifted it almost off it's wheels and it slide down the hill too.
     

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  9. fast_st

    fast_st Senior Member

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    On my JD 350 I use a sledge and a rock to tilt the blade :)
     
  10. check

    check Senior Member

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    I live in the Rockies and roads such as yours (and steeper) are quite common. When available an excavator is often used to rough in the road, then follow up with dozer. Otherwise the entire job is done by dozer.
    You will experience a considerable amount of cave in on the cutbank, resulting in a much narrower road in a couple years. This is especially true when not contouring the cutbank with an excavator. Don't worry too much about the fill side, it will hold crawlers quite well. In the spring, trucks will have to use caution the first few years, after that it will hold. I have had concrete trucks on mine and it's steeper and more gravelly than yours.
    If you have to do any switchbacks, do them where there is a finger ridge so you'll have room to make a wide turn.
    Next year a vegetation line will appear, showing exactly where the original contour was.
    It's best not to make any grade at the switchbacks or you will be climbing and turning at the same time while slowing down.
    Trees can be buried in the fill, just try not to have them directly under the road.
    We usually use an inclinometer and walk the proposed road with flag tape, remembering go a little low on the rockiest parts as you will end up pushing finer material from nearby to cover it to make it smooth.
    There are several ways to deal with rain washout. My preference is to cut the road with inslope and deal with the accumulation of water at the next switchback or wherever you can put a drainage cut.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2016
  11. Willie B

    Willie B Senior Member

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    A local contractor was famous for low bid work. He expanded a parking lot by hauling in fill. Taking chances he shouldn't have, he finished the job, and paved. Months later, the fill slid down the steep hill in one mass. It took six cars with it. There were law suits from the parking lot owner, and the neighboring property it all landed on. Log roads are just cut into the hill. Permanent roads should be more substantial. I like the suggestion of having the road on cut, not fill. If the earth the road sits on has been stable for centuries, it should be stable a while longer. The hill side is likely the angle of repose. Stable fill will have to be as deep at the bottom of the hill, as it is at top. It'd take a great deal of fill to do that.

    Willie
     
  12. chevy43

    chevy43 Well-Known Member

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    Here is the first swichback I had to do. I wish I could have planned it better but I couldn't see anything because of the brush and didn't know which direction I was going to go when I got there. I had to crawl on my knees and gues where to go next. The big manual B&E blade is too much work to adjust for the fine detail around the switchback. It is better I wait till I can get my middie excavator in there.
     

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  13. lantraxco

    lantraxco Senior Member

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    Looks good to my untrained eye. You can see why that country burns so hot when it catches fire, that brush is terrible!
     
  14. Willie B

    Willie B Senior Member

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    An old logger told me a tilt blade is a waste of money. Just back up onto a rock before you push. I haven't tried it.

    Willie
     
  15. lantraxco

    lantraxco Senior Member

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    I have. Carrying that rock around got pretty tiring, I went for the tilt blade. :cool:
     
  16. Trashman

    Trashman Well-Known Member

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    :falldownlaugh
     
  17. Scrub Puller

    Scrub Puller Senior Member

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    Yair . . .

    I dunno about a waste of money there Willie B I reckon hydraulic tilt was one of the biggest dozer innovations I experienced . . . even more significant than powershift.

    Given the choice I would take a direct drive with hydraulic tilt over a manual tilt powershift every time. I have never experienced a PAT blade but I don't think I would be comfortable with the apparent fragility of the system.

    In the days before integrated rippers backing up onto a log, rock, or scratched together dirt was the only way to tilt the tractor to get the corner of the blade into the ground and, consequently, there was a generation of operators who knew nothing but side cutting.

    As evidenced by the sometimes spirited discussions a few years back it has/is taking some time to alter.

    Cheers.
     
  18. StanRUS

    StanRUS Senior Member

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    Just when you've got all figured out; Mr. Fish&Game shows up to rain on your party! Deverting too much water from a seasonal creek, some type of insect will go extinct..
     
  19. old-iron-habit

    old-iron-habit Senior Member

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    Just a couple simple words of advice. Your road looks good. You will have the oppurtunity to cut it further into the bank after you get it roughed in if needed. If your dozer has a seat belt, use it. If not install one, it appears that you have a decent canopy to protect you. If you do start sliding down, keep some power on, and turn downhill. You chances of rolling will be substantually less.

    I agree with Scrub, I would rather have power tilt with direct drive over a manual tilt with power shift any day. I guess thats why I have power tilt on my old cable 9U-D6.
     
  20. Scrub Puller

    Scrub Puller Senior Member

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    Yair . . .

    Gotcha old-iron-habit. A direct drive D7 with hydraulic rippers and a manual angle string blade with a front mounted winch and hydraulic foot operated tilt was the nicest tractor I ever ran.

    Cheers.