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Help-Cat 289C vs. Deere 333D

Bliz

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2012
Messages
82
Location
9 Miles from Quebec
Occupation
Excavator/Logger
I have been reading the forum for a few weeks now and have learned a great deal about skid steers. My experience with heavy equipment goes back about 25 years and I have thousands of hours on dozers, backhoes, excavators and skidders. However, I have about 2 hours on a skid steer and after weeks of research I have narrowed my choices down to a Cat 289C or a Deere 333D. I would very much appreciate any info, good or bad, on these machines and any opinions on which one is your favorite. Also, if any of you use them in sitework or septic systems I would love to hear your experiences over the traditional excavator or bulldozer uses. Thanks!
 

pafarmer

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2010
Messages
883
Location
Somewhere in the woods !
Occupation
Land clearing, demo, site prep etc. Ex Pro Motocro
I have had better luck with the Deere CTL's than the CAT. I had a track derailment issue on my CAT CTL and they really pissed me off by not helping me out and allot of other people too has the same issue and they basically told all of us we didn't know or use the machine for its intended purpose which by the way was total and utter B.S.. I presently own a a few DEERE CTl's and had no problems to date with them. Both a solid machines that get used hard daily for placing bread on my table. I have yet to see or use a CAT 299D series machine. BOBCAT has a great offering in their T770 and T870 machines . good luck , whatever way you choose to go. they all have their plus's and minus I guess depending on whom you talk too....:usa
 

JDOFMEMI

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2007
Messages
3,074
Location
SoCal
I am partial to the Cat, as it is easiest to operate when you are used to other equipment, IMHO.

I have a 287 and have had good luck with it. It currently has about 3800 hrs on it. One of the other things I like about Cat (and ASV/Terex) over the others is the ride. The torsion axle springs take away a lot of the bone jarring, load spilling ride the rigid frame units have.

I would reccoment before you buy one, arrange a demo, or rent one of each for a week so you can see for yourself which fits you better. Many of the arguments are like a Ford/Chevy debate. it can go on forever with no good answer until you try it out for yourself. They each have good and bad points.
 

NCPIPELINE

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2012
Messages
444
Location
Raleigh, NC
Occupation
The Fixer
I am partial to the Cat, as it is easiest to operate when you are used to other equipment, IMHO.

I have a 287 and have had good luck with it. It currently has about 3800 hrs on it. One of the other things I like about Cat (and ASV/Terex) over the others is the ride. The torsion axle springs take away a lot of the bone jarring, load spilling ride the rigid frame units have.

I would reccoment before you buy one, arrange a demo, or rent one of each for a week so you can see for yourself which fits you better. Many of the arguments are like a Ford/Chevy debate. it can go on forever with no good answer until you try it out for yourself. They each have good and bad points.


Agree with the Ford/Chevy debate.... Could go on hours... Partial to Cat myself as maintenance seems easier.
 

rigandig

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2008
Messages
157
Location
Va
I rented a 289C low hour machine in November. Converted it to a "buy" before the end of the year. I have run several different ones over the years, although, not as much as some of the other folks on here. I did my research, here being one of the places I checked, and talked to Cat, Bobcat, Terex, Case, and Deere. The issue with the tracks coming off/busting, and the rollers lunching themselves, became my main focus of concern. I had the Cat salesman come by my house and set down and explain to me what had been done to address the issues they had while still using the ASV undercarriage and what had been done to address those issues. His explanation was what sold me on going with the Cat.
I also am in agreement with the others who mention the Ford/Chevy thing.
 

pafarmer

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2010
Messages
883
Location
Somewhere in the woods !
Occupation
Land clearing, demo, site prep etc. Ex Pro Motocro
I also am in agreement with the others who mention the Ford/Chevy thing.

truer words could not be spoken here. I think, As long as its an American Company getting the Capital gain at the end of the day , we all have a small win to be happy with in this day and age. The CAT and the DEERE are both solid machines. The derailment isses I had on mine have been corrected, "I owned one of the first in my area at the time of rlease and thats how products grow in terns of design and development. My local dealer was the issue, his inability to handle issues in a professional manner is what basically drove me to Deere. Cat as a company still has a strong presence in my fleet....I drive a Chevy 2500HD DMAx by the way but my a few of my 10 wheelers are Ford.....I just want to see pictures of whatever this guy gets !!!

:usa
Semper Fi
 
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Bliz

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2012
Messages
82
Location
9 Miles from Quebec
Occupation
Excavator/Logger
Thanks for all the good information and advice. I have my final meeting with Cat tomorrow and at this point Cat is about $7,000.00 more for the 289C than John Deere is for the 333D. What concerns me the most about this is that on paper the Cat is not close to the Deere in terms of lift capacity, tipping load, HP, etc. The 299C appears to be much closer in terms of specifications but that price is out of sight compared to the Deere. Am I making a mistake worrying about specs or should they be a good indicator of performance? Thanks again for any advice.
 

pafarmer

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2010
Messages
883
Location
Somewhere in the woods !
Occupation
Land clearing, demo, site prep etc. Ex Pro Motocro
Specification are an extremely good indicator of performance . 7K is a major chunk of coin for weight a class less of a machine IMHO. 7k buys allot of fuel or a couple really nice attachments...Simple choice when they are that far apart. My CAT dealer used to tell me that "CAT cost more only because they could get away with it" I kid you not. Thats one more reason I run Deere now. I 'm guessing both CAT and Deere are easily supported in your Area. ..Also bear in mind that the CAT "C" series is presently being replaced with the new 4T "D" series machine. The 299C should be what you comparing to a 333D. The 289C is a lesser machine than the 299C in terms of specifications. No contest IMHO. In summary, You have a CAT dealer quoting you 7k more for a machine that is in a whole lower weight/Spec category/class than the competitors more capable/higher capability machine. And your still talking to CAT? I promise you that you will not look back after running the new "D" series from Deere. Remeber , pictures are mandatory.

JD 329D to a CAT 289C
JD 333D to a CAT 299C
This would be Apples to Apples in my opinion.
 
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durallymax

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2011
Messages
666
Location
Wi
You can look at specs and ratings all day, until you run it in the task you need, you will never know if it will do what you want.

Ratings are ratings and seldom give a real world feel for what the machine can accomplish for what you want to do.

I would never buy another piece of equipment without a demo, just like you would never buy a car without a test drive. If its brand new and its something you already have and know works, thats different. But if you are switching brands, models, or something else, it is always best to demo it. If they refuse to give you a demo that is an indicator of their service/support. If they have machines on the lot and simply wont let you try one without any sort of reasonable explanation that shows you how well they will treat you for years to come. If they do not have machines on the lot at all that shows one of two things. Either they don't try to sell many or can't sell many or they sell so fast they can't keep them around. If the reason they don't have one is because they are "sold out" look into the details. if they are "sold out" because they had one machine sitting there for a year and just sold it and now decided to restock, their parts and service dept likely follow the same pattern for that line as does the possibility of getting a loaner/rental.

Try to get both machines out for at least a couple hours and use them for your most demanding tasks that you are worried about, things that require a lot of pushing power, breakout force, lifting ability (weight,reach forward, reach height), hydraulic flow/power, tight spaces you may be concerned about, stability etc etc. Beat the snot out of it if needed, but make sure to take the time to get used to the controls and features in each machine so that you can decided which one has the most functional and/or nicest ones. Don't forget service. Look at the layout of the machine, will things like preventative maintenance (fluids,filters,cleaning,grease,etc.), basic repairs (starter,alternator,belt(s),water pump,hydraulic hoses), and maybe even advanced repairs be easy to do. Remember time is money. Even if under warranty, your machine is still down until the repair is completed and if its that much easier to work on, the tech will finish sooner. The cost savings are even greater for those doing their own repairs. Don't be scared to grab the wrench and flip the cab up and/or take some of the sheilds/skid plates off to see how things might come apart.

Once you see how they perform in the real world, how nice they are to operate, and the serviceability of them, come back to the dealership themselves. Which one values you and your time more? Could be as simple as the one who drives out to meet with you versus the other one doing business at the dealer. Tour their parts dept, and shop. Talk to some of the people there(especially mechanics), talk to the others in the area about the dealer. GOOGLE them, you'd be surprised what you find, but remember a lot more people come online to vent about issues than people who come on to talk about how great everything is. Many of the 5 star reviews are not from actual customers.

I don't know Deere well on the construction side, but I will say that both CAT const. and John Deere Ag. seem very alike at levels above the dealership. Both believe in large multi-location regional territory dealerships, highly advanced speedy parts systems, offering the full line-up, putting there name on every little piece of the machine, immense quality control, catchy marketing, brand recognition, and making you feel warm and fuzzy so you spend more. Both companies are essentially control freaks. Now I do not know about Deere const. but I do know their Ag. division seems to have a next day mentality for parts. They can have it all the next day however they don't keep much at the dealership. For some people this works, however for some pieces of equipment such as Forage harvesters and balers, where the crop can't wait till morning, this policy does not work.


Weigh everything out to make the final decision. If possible, have a couple of your better employees or a good friend or two go through the machines with you as well for alternate opinions.

Real world functionality (don't get blinded by the looks and comforts)
Operator comfort
Added features
Serviceability
Model History (Cat track issues, Deere issues etc)
Resale Value
Warranty Period and Coverage
Dealer Sales Service
Dealer Machine Service
Dealer Parts Service
Dealer Policies (maybe they do free or discounted loaners)
Dealer Location Convenience (15 minutes away versus 30 minutes away, but maybe the 30 minutes away has a parts drop 5 minutes away or delivery.)
Dealer Hours Convenience (Service and Parts, may not be as important in your business but in Ag it means a lot to be open longer)
Emergency service/parts (if you break down at 2 am can they get you going again and how much extra do they charge.
Cost of ownership (Service intervals, fuel useage,wear parts, etc)


Once you weigh out the pros and cons of each, revisit the numbers and decide how much the machines are worth. Maybe you don't even feel the Deere is worth what they quoted you or maybe you feel the Cat is worth the price gap, maybe you think the Cat is way overpriced or the Deere is way underpriced. Once you decide on these things, get down to dealing. Explain to each salesman what you like and don't like and why you have chosen the value of their machines. Work each one of them as low as you can on price, then work them lower on other things. Maybe the deal will end up with one CTL being 4K more than the other but you feel it is only worth 2K more than the other machine, ask for some little things like filters and fluid for free, or some other things like buckets or other features at cost. Remember at cost doesn't cost them anything. Maybe they can make the deal by selling you a machine without A/C,radio,power-attach etc and then adding those back in at cost.


At the end of it all, you'll know which one is right. Good luck.
 

Bliz

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2012
Messages
82
Location
9 Miles from Quebec
Occupation
Excavator/Logger
Thanks again to all for taking the time to provide such excellent advice. I met with the Cat salesman and to his credit he had researched the 333D and told me we should be looking at the 299D. I advised him that was going to be my first point and we then discussed the particular features I wanted on the machine. What I didn't make clear on my posts was that I was also buying a 5.5-6.0 metric ton excavator as part of the package. I have purchased a number of Cat machines going back 20 years from the dealer and their service is top notch. I have also purchased a couple tractors from the Deere dealer over the last 6 years and I would say they are also good but not quite as responsive as Cat. A couple things make me lean towards the Cat. One being they have a parts drop 10 minutes from my house. Deere will air or overnight the parts via UPS but sometimes it takes a few days to get them because they come from out West. Cat has almost every part in a warehouse or at the dealership located here in the Northeast. The second plus for Cat is that during the warranty period they will send a tech to my job site at no cost to make the repair. Deere on the other hand requires I bring it to their shop or pay for the road call.
I did not get a final price from Cat today but should have one on Monday along with the finance rate. Deere has great finance rates for almost every division except construction. The best they would do is 4.9%. Cat is telling me probably less than 3%. I would guess at this point if Cat is in the ballpark for the 2 machines as a package deal I will ask to demo a Cat, then a Deere and make a decision. I can live with either the Cat or Deere excavators, as I have run both, but the compact track loader is all new to me.
 

Jeepwalker

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2011
Messages
284
Location
WI
Since you have a good history with CAT, it seems more likely they will bend over backwards for you if/when you need, as they know you may well spend more good money with them. Another plus for CAT. I see a lot of JD machines around here. They appear really beefy and robust.
 

pafarmer

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2010
Messages
883
Location
Somewhere in the woods !
Occupation
Land clearing, demo, site prep etc. Ex Pro Motocro
CAT should step you up for you to keep and earn more future business. Sounds like they owe you some type of reward for long term repeat business. Cat needs to match the JD price point option for option , Spec for closest spec, No stories on CTL or the excavator on how much better it is , becasuse its simnple not that much better. They all are very capable machine and better than any past models. With figures in hand, head on over to Deere and see what they come in at for the exact same equipment package. CASH talks. I just recently purchased a few 2011 JD CTL's and 2012 BOBCAT E50. My Deere dealer smoked CAT and BOBCAT on the CTL's. BOBCAT had the best excavator by far in my opinion and that cost was less than the Deere or CAT comparable model and a Kubota as well. The BOBCAT specification on and their entire "M" series excavator series makes the others urgent about stepping up with their tried packages......Remeber, pictures are all of this is B.S... Try and hurry , your killing us....ha ha ha
 

JohnD386

Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
6
Location
Florida
Get a full bucket of dirt in the Deere and raise to max lift. Travel forward and come to a quick stop and hang on. I watched a guy loading a dump truck fall into the side of it with a Deere at max lift. Purchase price on the CAT is higher but the cost of ownership is much lower. Also let me know how easy it is to check the air filter on that Deer. If you have a employee running and maintaining that machine I bet it won't get checked often. Rear door on the CAT opens nice and easy. I wouldn't be scared to but a 289C against that 333D. On paper its not a fair match. Put them side by side on a real world demo and see who wins.
 
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