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///// Heavy hauling for personal use ? CDL / DOT # ? //////

Discussion in 'Equipment Moving Questions' started by Andyinchville, Feb 26, 2015.

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  1. td25c

    td25c Senior Member

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    Yeah .... Andy has a couple options ....

    Get the CDL & DOT number and use existing equipment , ( Dodge 1 ton dually and 12 ton econoline trailer ) .

    Or .... Downsize the trailer to something like this so he is under the CDL GVWR combination . http://cornprotrailer.net/heavy-duty-utility-trailers/
    If he operates " Intrastate " and never gets out of Virginia he may very well not need the DOT number ? I don't see Virginia listed as a state requiring the DOT number .
    http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/registration/do-i-need-usdot-number

    FMCSA is not even sure about it . http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/faq/i-am-i...on-hazardous-materials-do-i-need-usdot-number
     
  2. CM1995

    CM1995 Administrator

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    Well with the discussion of DOT numbers I went to look if our operation needed one. Yeah I know I should've done it already..:rolleyes:

    Anyway with the link on the FMCSA to Alabama goes right the Q&A of whether you need a DOT # in Alabama, turns out I do not.
     
  3. mitch504

    mitch504 Senior Member

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    In SC, you can haul a D6 with an F250 and the DOT cops don't seem to care. But his original post was about crossing 5 states on a 900 mile trip.
     
  4. Steve Frazier

    Steve Frazier Founder Staff Member

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  5. Andyinchville

    Andyinchville Well-Known Member

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    HI All,

    In keeping all my options open (not ruling out the self haul option still though...heck, I even bought a trailer just to do it and have even done a fair amount of legal research into it the legality of self transport)....I decided to also at least test the waters on how much it would cost to get the machine transported by others (i.e. shipping / trucking type people).....So far the lowest price I have is about $1500 from a transport company (I don't know them just a transport company).

    In theory,assuming my truck would get maybe 9 MPGs pulling the trencher over 1800 miles (driving at about 50 MPH max to maximize fuel economy and safety), my costs would be about 200 gallons of fuel at maybe $3.00 per gallon (I think AAA had diesel at 2.95 per gallon national avg)....Anyways about $600 for fuel (plus maybe another $100 in case I don' t get good mileage), plus I would need about 3 or 4 nights in a hotel (maybe even 5 to make a more fun vacation sightseeing trip)...plus on the road food and misc souvenirs along the way)...the net real cost may not be that much to have it transported but then I would be missing out a potentially nice mini family vacation that at some point I would have taken anyways so I could possibly kill 2 birds with one stone here.

    As far as commercial use of this particular machine (as quoted above - the trencher) , while the possibility always exists for most anything to be used commercially (and there was an opportunity for it at one time which has unfortunately has apparently gone away (unfortunately because my contractor friend told me about it and could have moved a machine for me since he works at the same site) , I still need it and needed it before the opportunity came up because I need to fix stuff around my property for a pretty long while now (driveway etc...)....So , I am buying the machine to fix on my stuff first (again personal use) and then look into the possibility of pimping it out later as "icing" on the cake (The money I save by doing stuff for myself generally always pays for the machine first and then I have it left over for more around the house type things or the possibility of actually making money with it....However, unfortunately due to my regular work keeping me busy most of the time, my "icing on the cake" scenarios never seems materialize or at least not materialize very often (I suppose this may be to the disappointment of some neighbors as my yard generally gets filled with neat "stuff" I use on my property which later become lawn ornaments).

    I generally research stuff first but ultimately I think I am more of an "armchair warrior" (I think that is the term) than an actual doer in a commercial sense..
    (If you look further, in other posts I have done on this site I asked for opinions on a Case backhoe and track loader (both of which I ultimately got for personal use) and even a roll off truck .... I got valuable info here on this forums and that's great!...If you want to know where most of the neat toys are talked about...this would be the place...FWIW I never did get a roll off truck even though I looked seriously at it....I did get the smaller F800 tho.

    As an example of "stuff" I have done, I looked into "Net Metering" power after my purchase of a generator for my home (because I got tired of losing power...regrettably I learned of net metering after buying a large gas generator or I may have gotten a diesel one and burn W85 to make power), I looked into becoming a professional welder after I bought my huge welder (a 6 cylinder powered 300A trailer mounted welder because because I needed some welding and I hated waking up early to catch the local mobile welder to do things and I kinda had a problem paying him his minimum $45 charge for just less than 1 minute of weld time (literally) ....and he just lived down the street from me!, I bought a backhoe (case 680) to fix my own septic system.... my 2 septic repairs - (needed) ...paid for the backhoe BUT I also researched into the possibility of doing it commercially (heck I needed some of that huge profit of installing septics !!)...Actually in thinking about it, I got into the lawn care business (mowing) because after buying a house I had to get a mower (similarly I got a power washer and added it to my business name after a painter said I had to power wash the house before painting (after I learned and saw how the power wash was done and the fact that it only took him 1 hour to charge $200 I was all on top of that! ;-) ....

    So in summary I typically get stuff to use it personally (except maybe the power washer because my house got washed first before I got my machine....BUT then again I held the power washer man off and did my own deck, sidewalk, outbuildings, and deck!...gotta save the money) and think how great it would be to make the big bucks commercially tho unfortunately that really has yet to happen....hence my looking at cheaper machines to use around the house.

    If I started using stuff commercially (at least the big heavy stuff over 26K) I would look into getting a CDL tho because it wouldn't be reasonable to tow a huge machine to a construction site for personal reasons!....and if it were commercial use I would get a cdl...

    On the other hand, if I knew what I know now I would have gotten a heavier dump truck to move stuff to the dump...not that I actually haul that much stuff to the dump (I intentionally got a less than 26K rated truck because I thought you need a CDL for a big truck....since the dump truck is mainly just to haul stuff to the dump for me personally (and since I have over 7 acres I could be classified as a farm) I could have gotten the bigger BUT on the flip side, I guess I could deliver mulch commercially with out worries since even with commercial use the truck is under CDL limits.

    Oh well, hopefully tomorrow I get to talk to some of the other states powers that be in regards to my potential trip to FL....I'll keep you posted as to my findings

    Thanks

    Andrew

    PS - Side thought : anybody here haul stuff for money or trade?...PM me if interested....
     
  6. Scrub Puller

    Scrub Puller Senior Member

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    Yair . . . Andyinchville.

    Life isn't that hard mate, don't make mountains out of molehills, you must learn how to relax.

    I have to hand it to you though, you cover all the angles. (big grin)

    Cheers.
     
  7. nomorelawns

    nomorelawns Member

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    This was a very entertaining thread. A valiant attempt by the OP at rationalizing the decision to take this commercial and questionable truck trailer combo on an adventure.

    The reality is that he probably could make the journey without going thru a DOT colonoscopy.

    The truth is simple: You can't have the best of both worlds. You need a class A CDL license and all the other FMCSA compliance blah blah blah to do this legally with your commercially registered and commercially insured commercial truck and commercial trailer combination. And this is so for one reason: When a trained officer pulls you over or you pass thru a weigh station, they will see thru all your personal use nonsense, they know what your attorney doesn't know, they know what the dumbasses you have called and asked questions to don't know, as well as your local officers don't know. That is the business of interstate transportation and commerce. And they will stick it to you, dry. Because that is their job.
     
  8. CM1995

    CM1995 Administrator

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    Hit the nail on the head. If the vehicle is registered to a Corporation, it's commercial period, end of story.:cool:

     
  9. Knocker of rock

    Knocker of rock Well-Known Member

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    For somebody who likes to call every cop out there a Barney Fife, you'd think you would be better informed. A combined weight of 26,001 lbs does no automatically require a CDL, even for a driver clearly in commerce. CDL's are required for
    (1) Straight trucks greater than 26K
    (2) Combinations greater than 26K where the trailer is greater than 10K.

    A 24K truck hauling a 8K trailer would not require a CDL.

    I always laugh at the mis- or ill-informed like Tuney, who make up for lack of knowledge with volume or mass.
     
  10. tuney443

    tuney443 Senior Member

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    First off,I do NOT call every cop Barney,whether here on HEF or anywhere else,obviously you don't know me so your comment there is both unprovoked and unappreciated to say the least.
    Second,your quoting my 26,001 comment is out of context as I was specifically targeting the OP's GCVWR which was going to be way over the 26,001 lb. minimum and yes indeed his trailer was over the 10K lb. threshold.
    Next is the fact that not only did I inject the FMCSA regs in that post you quoted me regarding the weight laws, but also in my post #11---further proof that you sir either can't read or only read what is convenient for you to do so.
    Lastly,if and when you come back to the table in the future,you had damn better either be better informed with your facts before attacking someone who has most likely forgot half of what you will ever learn.
     
  11. Knocker of rock

    Knocker of rock Well-Known Member

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    I doubt that you're that much more knowledgeable than my dog, let alone me , Goober.

    Your ego knows no bounds.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 8, 2015
  12. tuney443

    tuney443 Senior Member

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    You have now stooped to the level below unreasonable,using names in a childish manner because you were caught,can't refute my facts,and simply won't man up.Ego has NOTHING to do with my rebuttal and I'm sure most members will agree.
     
  13. Shimmy1

    Shimmy1 Senior Member

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    All I can say is WOW, and everyone better settle the hell down or CM or someone else is going to shut this whole damn thing down. Now, I am going to do some research, and I believe that I am going to find the the 26,000 lb limit is GROSS COMBINED VEHICLE WEIGHT. Now, I may be wrong, but I don't think I am. Now, your point about a 24,000 truck pulling an 8,000 trailer is valid, but if you drive that on a scale and you weigh 32,000 lbs, I'm fairly certain you need a CDL to drive it.
     
  14. Shimmy1

    Shimmy1 Senior Member

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    Here is North Dakota's CDL guide. It clearly says Gross Vehicle Weight. Page 1. Knocker of Rock, I'm pretty sure this is the case in EVERY state in the union. Feel free to prove me wrong. Otherwise, APOLOGIZE.

    http://www.dot.nd.gov/divisions/driverslicense/docs/class_c1.pdf


    On edit: By the way, Knocker, I have driven over 1.5 million miles in 16 states and 4 Canadian provinces. I hope that's enough for you.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2015
  15. CM1995

    CM1995 Administrator

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    OK boys simmer down.:cool:

    When the topic of CDL's and the commercial rules comes up sometimes it gets heated as the rules are confusing.

    Let's take a look at the Forum Rules -

    Let's focus on the mature manner aspect and all act like adults, as it would be a shame to close this thread as there is some valuable information - away from the small amount of bickering that's went on.:cool2
     
  16. monster76

    monster76 Senior Member

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    Every one on this forum is retarded cdl is for foreigners who cant drive legally. That is where cdl is derived from basically. i just wanted to get in on the action since nobody really knows the laws even the guys enforcing it half the time. My only word of advice is to call your local compliance officer and have them fax you a copy of the statues stating w.e they say to back you up so if you do get stopped it will be better than a he said she said argument about the time you called the dot office
     
  17. Andyinchville

    Andyinchville Well-Known Member

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    HI All,

    Here is my most recent update to my potential equipment transportation situation....

    Of the states I have to travel through (VA, NC, SC, GA, and FL).....

    1) VA does not require a CDL or DOT # for personal use.

    I saw the code section but forgot where I put the code numbers numbers.

    Also, I did go to our DMV to get a copy of the CDL manual and in the added Virgina Supplement (to the CDL manual) there is a statement that reads "Vehicles operated by persons only for personal use, such as recreational vehicles and moving vans" exists as an exemption to the standard CDL requirements.

    Per the trooper I spoke with and the FMCSA man , this is the reason even though my stickered GVWR ratings added up to 35K (in my case) , If used only for personal use, I would not be required to have a CDL or DOT #s in VA (or in the case of and per the FMCSA man in the entire USA).

    Interesting side note for VA....The trooper I spoke with said ANY vehicle (commercial or not) with a stickered weight (GVW) over 8800 lbs (single or combo (total stickered GVW) as in pulling a trailer) must stop in at weigh stations! wow so technically be aware of that in some heavier rated vehicles ( the trooper did say they typically let duallies (unless obviously commercial and RV etc typically slide on this law).

    2) NC is OK with the personal use exemption and follows FMCSA guidelines...suggested I pass through weight stations tho.

    3) SC - The attorney from SC said there were no personal use exemptions from the CDL requirements.....I will have to get a second opinion on that because of what the FMCSA man said earlier....also It would really stink if every other state was OK with it and SC wants to hold me up on a CDL...

    4) GA - GA is FMCSA so it appears they are personal use exempted as well.

    5) I still have not been able to speak with somebody at the FL dept of Transportation despite waiting on hold for over 30 minutes at a time on several different attempts to reach then...I'll try again tomorrow probably

    On the flip side, just for the heck of it, I did get my DOT medical certificate (the same one requ'd of CDL drivers.....basically, I looked at it as a cheap physical ($100) and in VA you must have the certificate first before you can even take the test for a CDL (in case I want to formally get my CDL because I may eventually / potentially haul commercially) ...OR on the other hand IF I do take the trip and SC / FL does hold me to a CDL (despite what the FMCSA man said) at least they can't fine me for not having a medical card and safety equipment (I will have reflective triangles, spare fuses, and a fire extinguisher with me if I take the trip).

    The saga continues....

    Andrew
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2015
  18. PwC

    PwC New Member

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    There is a reason why the GVW on my F450 is 15,000 and 10,000 on my flatbed. In Minnesota I know for a fact that a non-CDL driver can gross 26,000 total with a stipulated maximum of 10,000 for trailers. I have never had a DOT officer tell me otherwise. They say that it would be better if I got a higher class license, but all I need is my medical card and I am set for what I drive. I may seem to be oversimplifying things, but that is how it has always been understood here; cross the 26,000 total for truck and trailer and open up a large can of works, well, actually the can is probably full of paperwork.
     
  19. Knocker of rock

    Knocker of rock Well-Known Member

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    Seriously, you are claiming to be the victim? Even though without knowing me, you told me you have forgotten much more than I've ever known, implying I am stupid regarding these facts.
     
  20. Knocker of rock

    Knocker of rock Well-Known Member

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    You need to APOLOGIZE to me

    A combination greater than 26K where the towed vehicle (i.e.: the trailer) has a rating of greater than 10K. My example stands, a tractor of 25,999 towing a trailer of 9,999 does not need a CDL. Read the law carefully, I was in charge of many truck drivers like you. I audit their books and explained the laws to them.

    Even signed their checks
     

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