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///// Heavy hauling for personal use ? CDL / DOT # ? //////

Discussion in 'Equipment Moving Questions' started by Andyinchville, Feb 26, 2015.

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  1. Randy88

    Randy88 Senior Member

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    iowa
    If your ever anywhere near the Midwest, this is what you'll need for your trip, just to name a few.

    As has been stated, if its a LLC, nothing is personal, same goes for pulling a trailer over 10,001 gvw, the pickup alone maybe if its in your personal name, both licensed and insured, once the trailer is hooked up, sorry about the personal exemption that's gone or still there but require a cdl anyhow.

    Your crossing state lines, you need a trip permit, be in IFTA with fuel tax stickers on the door, a valid class A cdl in your wallet, an up to date medical card in there as well, or else your cdl is invalid.

    A registered dot number on both sides of your truck, permanently stuck on, visible to any officer or from all scale houses.

    To go through all scales that are open, even empty, most require you be 6,000 lbs, know your empty weight, and just to be sure pass through the first one anyhow, they're looking for dot numbers on your side anyhow.

    In order to even get a trip permit, you have to have up to date insurance, with enough liability for the state's your traveling to give you a permit, they also check your driving record, and the license on your pickup, you do have it licensed for 35,000 lbs don't you??

    Did you contact your insurance company, did they give you permission to take this trip, which I'd doubt, but if you didn't, they'll find out when you apply for a trip permit, if you don't have insurance or enough insurance, and get caught in a state that doesn't care what you were told, like most don't, add those to the list of fines as well, pleading ignorance isn't an excuse, telling anyone someone told you over the phone you could without problems, isn't an excuse either.

    You'll have to abide by any and all laws in the state's your traveling through, first is everything listed above, plus axle weights, tire weight ratings, a fire extinguisher, triangles, nothing on the dash of your pickup, nothing near you in the cab, everything behind the seat or as has been stated, tidy and in its place.

    Tire depths must be in compliance, same for brake conditions, if its electric brakes on the trailer, it must meet each states criteria for a backup breakaway, does it have a battery with a date stamped on it, that's still within compliance?, does it work?

    Do you have dot approved chains and binders, are the chains stamped with a weight rating and still visible, do you know how to use them in accordance with the dot rules in each state?

    Are there any oil or heaven forbid, fuel leaks on your pickup or what your hauling?

    Make sure you have proof of purchase that meets each states criteria of documentation, not just a hand written note from john doe scribbled on the back of McDonalds wrapper.

    Your pickup, trailer need inspection reports done on them, they need to be current, have the forms in your pickup, same with all your paperwork, in most states that or any paperwork can only be copied once, you can't fax them multiple times or they get distorted.

    You'll need a log book, current and accurate, you'd better not be speeding or try to doctor the log book in any way, most are smart enough to run a calculator, especially with as many officers and how long they're going to working on you when you get caught.

    You'd better not be involved in an accident in any way, heaven forbid if your found at fault, if its involving an car, your pretty much at fault, that's a given, the courts will hash out your personal status your claiming, then they have you, your truck, trailer and load and nothing but time to hash over how many things to fine you for, and pay before your let go, most states don't take a check. If the accident is with someone within their state, no matter who, they'll even check the color of your underwear to make sure they have enough documentation for the upcoming lawsuit and their states citizens to win big time, while you claim your exempt from all the laws due to personal use, that LLC status might not be enough to prevent your house from being involved, since YOUR the operator, but the courts can decide that one too, many have tried that defense only to lose in court, remember that one about every lawyer is right, until they get to court then they have a 50/50 chance of being right.

    Are there any rust holes in the frame of the truck or trailer, is everything fixed and gone over with a fine tooth comb, don't worry someone somewhere will do it for you maybe not on your behalf, but will do it just the same.

    Has anyone altered the hitch on the trailer and was it approved, did you even ask or run it by your local dot office to have someone look at it, or call to have someone come out, document the whole ordeal, is the truck hitch approved, did you do the same thing with the pickup's hitch?

    By chance what's the pickups manufacturers pulling gvw on the truck, is it at least 24,000lbs or more, do you have that information in your paperwork in the cab?

    You have to abide by log book hours, most will ask for slips for fuel or hotels you've stayed in, depending on the officer, might want to keep them organized just in case.

    No cracks, chips or knicks in the glass on the truck anywhere, as has been stated, keep it clean, mainly to view your dot numbers on the side, if not there, someone will probably stop you to ask why not.

    All the lights working at all times, do the electric brakes lock up when the breakaway coupler is pulled, and stay locked when you drive ahead and pull evenly as they are locked?

    It depends on the state, but most don't consider anything that digs dirt to be personal, most will fine you and you get to argue it in court later on, my state won't even entertain the idea of dirt equipment being personal, but we do have to only register the empty weight of the truck and trailer, not gvw as long as we don't cross state lines, but they upped our permits so its a wash in the end anyhow and if you cross state lines, none of it apply.

    I'm sure I'm missing a couple hundred things, but its a start, also if an officer in another state doesn't buy the personal exemption thing, this list applies before you move anything, are you prepared to get it all in compliance along the side of the road, I think on some of them, you have 15 minutes to get it up to date, but maybe that's just to provide proof of insurance and update the log book, while the officer does the walk around of your truck and trailer.

    I've been told by enough barney fife's over the years what I was legal to do, only to argue and royally tick off an officer and lose in the end anyhow, now I ask my insurance company if I can do what whatever it is I'm thinking, call each state and ask, contact my own dot office within state, figure 90 percent are lying or don't know, hope for the best and plan for the worst and use the worst case scenario imaginable, and when I get pulled over, toss everything out and sit and wait it out, not argue with an officer, get my ticket and hope to not be red tagged and call my attorney afterwards to have him do his homework to see if I can argue it in court, or just shut up and pay it, if its not a moving violation, I just pay it, I've never yet won one in court, doubt I ever will, if its a moving violation, I also get to pay an attorney who at best has a 50 percent chance of winning, if with just a judge, maybe its lowered to under 10 percent chance of winning but worth trying all the same if its in question, but then again I lost faith in the system many thousands of dollars ago, all paid in fines.

    90 percent of the time you'll luck out and not have issues, but if you do have issues, you have been warned by many here already, just be prepared, my statement of hiring it hauled still stands, same for driving the pickup only out to look at the machine, but then I'm not lucky, I've never won the lotto, and have paid my share of fines after being told by many I was legal and up to date, only once in all the years of driving have I ever been pulled over and not fined, he just couldn't find anything wrong, but before I made it home, another older officer got me just the same for a block sticking out of my lowboy sump, over 50 percent of the way, and not chained down, that of course was a judgment call on the officers behalf, imagine that, he determined 51 percent of the block stuck out rather than only 50 percent, and you want to argue personal exemption from all rules??
     
  2. maddog

    maddog Senior Member

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    Location:
    middle TN
    If I'm not mistaking then he would be illegal just using his truck to pull the trailer empty(35K lbs)? How many have loaded 1500lbs(or more) on a half ton truck? What if he got a trailer rated at 13K and the truck were rated at 11K then he would be legal, same load same truck different trailer rating? From what little research I did, it seems he is legal because he is under actual weight and it's personal usage. Still curious as to what the tow capacity of the truck is?
    There should be a set rule for all driving in the US, this individual state crap might have been good before interstate travel (and interstate roads were built) but it's just bureaucratic horse dug revenue now. I also agree with stiffer regulations on RVs, I've seen countless idiots driving these down the highway, that in all honesty shouldn't even be allowed a pedal bike lic.
     
  3. maddog

    maddog Senior Member

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    Location:
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    Just thought of something for the OP, what about renting a uhaul trk and trailer combo?
     
  4. td25c

    td25c Senior Member

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    Location:
    indiana
    Yeah .... Myself , I would look around closer to home .

    Take some time , go look & operate the machine then go back home & think it over . If you like the machine & decide on purchase then hook up the checkbook & bring the truck and trailer :)

    I did spot this case combo unit in Rich Creek VA .

    http://www.machinerytrader.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=10517913
     
  5. blowerman

    blowerman Well-Known Member

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    Messages:
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    Location:
    wisconsin
    Since many of you all shared valid reason to the trucking needs/rules for what the OP asked, I'll share my own thoughts on the financial side.
    Unless this is something you are doing for fun, the numbers won't pan out. You are going to "dead head" 900 miles one way, illegally load and secure a trencher then drive 900 miles north? Any truck broker will/can add this to a semi as a partial load... My D5g was moved WI to south AL on the back of a single drop with a Oshkosh 6x6 all within weight. New holland ag tractor was shipped on top of steel beams. (Straddled the load) Tri axle bark blower was moved WA to WI on a double drop extendable trailer as the driver was in a hurry to get back east for a trip and did this for cheap. If time isn't the issue, trucking gets cheaper. The only things I move ourselves have been "drive away" trucks since we insure, apportion plate and find a cheap flight. All others I hire out!
     
  6. LT-x7

    LT-x7 Senior Member

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    Occupation:
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    Location:
    Central COMMI-fornia
    You got it. GCVW is not effected by the load. Well unless your load puts you over your GCVW ;) Doesn't all this stuff make your brain hurt :Banghead
     
  7. old-iron-habit

    old-iron-habit Senior Member

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    One thing to beware of is make sure your insurance policy is good for the gross load you will have. An log hauler here last winter got a over weight ticket and on top of it he got hit for almost 1,000 bucks more for not having enough insurance. He was insured for a legal load only so they said he had invalid insurance.
     
  8. tuney443

    tuney443 Senior Member

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    Occupation:
    excavating contractor
    Location:
    Dutchess County,NY
    The way he is now,he definitely needs a CDL and DOT tags,no question.As for your 1500 lb. question,I always say it's only illegal till you get caught,enough said,we're all adults here,you play,you might pay.Not sure of your question on the trailer of 13K as you don't state if that's the payload or the GVWR.Regardless though,his truck alone earns him DOT tags.GVCWR[gross vehicle carrying weight rating],believe it or not is something that DOT[at least by me] really don't look at,why.have no idea.Rest assured though,if there's an accident,whole different story.There is a bible on commercial driving regs---its all in the FMCSA,simply do a google search,it's all federal now,the states have to adhere to those regs.
     
  9. Andyinchville

    Andyinchville Well-Known Member

    Joined:
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    Occupation:
    Lawn Maintenance / Property Development
    Location:
    Charlottesville, VA
    HI All,

    I've been thinking about my situation and why my situation may be so confusing and potentially controversial or hard to understand.

    Admittedly, despite speaking with some of the powers that be (whether it be lawyers or govt officials) .....I still feel a little uncomfortable because potentially the person that pulls me over may not have the same opinion / interpretation of the laws / regulations that the people I spoken with have (heck , even here , there is still quite a bit of turmoil concerning my situation despite some of my preliminary findings.....This is unfortunate because there may be many more people in a situation similar to mine that could benefit from the findings we put forth here and I think it would be nice to have a definitive answer for them (and even me for that matter although I feel fairly confident that I should be OK in doing my trip even if stopped) but I am not 100% sure that is possible.

    With that, here is another way of looking at the situation that may make it easier (?) to understand...

    I think it would probably be fair to say that most of the people here on this forum are in some way involved making money from the use of and / or the transportation of equipment ....This, I think, is the biggest reason many people people come to the table (this discussion) immediately thinking CDL / DOT numbers etc ....because most here think in terms of something they are already familiar with or already are involved with (having a CDL because of necessity due to a commercial venture / compensated business).

    On the other hand, I come from a non CDL background and hence probably never even gave it a second thought about the need for a CDL because I am doing this for personal / non business / non compensated reasons...so really, left on my own I would not have even probably though of CDL / DOT as being even remotely needed (personal use VS commercial use)....On the flip side, I do appreciate the fact that the CDL etc... issue was brought up because it at least allowed me to think about how the other side lives and the loads of work it must be to be involved with interstate trucking for hire etc just to be compliant with the rules of so many different areas...While I realize, the rules are probably there to help ensure safety, perhaps the rules should be simpler so as not to have people constantly worrying about regulations and getting fined / pulled and actually concentrate more on (radical thought)....driving safely!

    My summarized take on all this is: A person can be pulled over for almost any reason....If a person is doing something on personal non compensated basis, then pretty much he /she can do so without the need for a CDL / DOT number etc...even though the technical numbers (weights etc) may say otherwise.

    On the flip side, if a person is in business and being compensated in some way then the CDL / DOT rules apply in full force...

    Is this a fair summary and thought process?....Just hoping to get this into my head and possibly help others in a similar situation...

    Andrew
     
  10. Steve Frazier

    Steve Frazier Founder Staff Member

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    How many different ways will you have to be told before you understand???
     
  11. Delmer

    Delmer Senior Member

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    How about this, the constitution has this thing called the (interstate) commerce clause, and you can choose whether you BELIEVE it applies to you or not.
     
  12. Scrub Puller

    Scrub Puller Senior Member

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    Yair . . . Andyinchville

    As an interested observer from another country I find your summation (if correct) absolutely unacceptable.

    An unlicensed inexperienced driver like yourself pulling loads considered to be marginal by folks who do it for a living is a travesty of reasonable thinking . . . to my mind it makes no difference if it's personal/non compensated or any other BS.

    Other blokes wives and families are out there on the highway and rules are rules and I find your line of thinking completely screwed.

    Put in the time and go practice some emergency stops and getting out of shape with one of those little rigs loaded to the limit on wet road and see how good you are.

    Cheers.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2015
  13. mitch504

    mitch504 Senior Member

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    Andy,
    Let's assume for a moment you are right, (even though I don't think you are), You go on this trip and get stopped or pull into a scale; Now, you are driving a truck that you say doesn't fall under any of these regs because you are not making money with it, but does fall under these regs if it's not an RV. OK, now how are you going to convince this officer that a truck registered to a company, (your LLC), pulling a trencher, is an RV?

    I think they will issue you big tickets, and I know NC at least probably won't let the truck move until a driver with a CDL, medical card, and logbook gets there, (remember my story about going to get my cousin's trucks?). If you're right, the only way you're going to get out of it is to go back to that state in a month or two and convince a judge of it.

    Good Luck, and let us know how you come out.


    BTW, Scrub Puller has a very valid argument, too.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2015
  14. tuney443

    tuney443 Senior Member

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    In post #48 I meant to say combination,NOT carrying,as in GVCWR(gross vehicle combination weight rating).
     
  15. Scrub Puller

    Scrub Puller Senior Member

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    Yair . . . Mitch504


    Appreciate that mate.

    I suppose I was sticking my nose in again, I have no knowledge of your regulations . . . it was the Original Posters thought process that had me bothered.

    Cheers.
     
  16. td15c

    td15c Well-Known Member

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    Andyinchville . this is a quote from you in anther thread in General Industry Questions Advice on plow / trencher for large cable mainline job 02-16-2015

    Quote
    " I have an opportunity to do a fair amount of mainline plowing work (supposedly over 9000 feet on one job with others to follow) for the local phone company (they are installing fiber mainline.....conduit appears to be 1.25 inch diameter that needs to go in 30" deep...clay type soil / some rocks).

    Currently I mainly do drop bury work but looking to do more for them hopefully become their go to guy for jobs" Unquote

    And then you said in your last post here.
    QUOTE"On the flip side, if a person is in business and being compensated in some way then the CDL / DOT rules apply in full force"..endQUOTE

    Looks to me like you fall under the full force of the CDL / DOT rules.
     
  17. CM1995

    CM1995 Administrator

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    Andy the fact that your truck is registered to a Limited Liability Corporation is the reason it's commercial - end of story.
     
  18. Randy88

    Randy88 Senior Member

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    We're looking at this all wrong guys, if we'd have encouraged him to go, look how much revenue he'd donate for a whole host of entities, I'm thinking we're depriving many of viable income by discouraging him. That and some learn faster, and retain it much longer if they learn through their wallet.
     
  19. still learn'n

    still learn'n Senior Member

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    why don't you just hire it done and you wouldn't have to worry about nothing just how you were going to unload simple all said and done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  20. mitch504

    mitch504 Senior Member

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    So what was the point of this?

    Were you just using us for practice, figuring if you could convince us it was OK, you could convince a judge or DOT cop?

    Or, were you trying to get a bunch of us to say it was OK, planning to show it to the judge for your ignorance defense?

    I have bought several trailers and machines in other states, and it has always rankled a bit hiring someone to bring them to me when I had the equipment on the yard to transport them safely and properly; but, I could almost always hire it done for the cost of the permits for the states I wasn't apportioned for.
     
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