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///// Heavy hauling for personal use ? CDL / DOT # ? //////

Discussion in 'Equipment Moving Questions' started by Andyinchville, Feb 26, 2015.

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  1. Andyinchville

    Andyinchville Well-Known Member

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    Occupation:
    Lawn Maintenance / Property Development
    Location:
    Charlottesville, VA
    Update : I spoke with an attorney here in Va and apparently code section 46.2 - 341.4 exempts the weight limit for personal use....of course she said you could still be pulled over and may have to discuss the situation with the officer but technically for personal use the weight limit is exempted. (2-27-15 )

    She is giving me referrals to lawyers in the the other states (NC, SC, GA and FL) that I would have to travel through.....hopefully they also have exemptions for personal use as well.

    Update : a man from the FCMSA just called me and is supposed to call me back in a bit regarding the personal use issue VS the greater than 26K weight rating of my towing setup.....he acknowledged the recreational aspect being exempted but seemed to be a little concerned about the commerce aspect (meaning transportation of something).....Appears I don't need authority since I am or will be purchasing the machine when I get there (i.e. owner of item being transported VS transporting something for somebody else). (2-21-15)....of course given what my attorney said with the va code above earlier I wonder why he is still researching?)...anyways, we'll see...

    Sitting on pins and needles...

    Andrew
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2015
  2. Andyinchville

    Andyinchville Well-Known Member

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    Occupation:
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    Location:
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    Update :2-27-15 about 12:55 PM .....Mr Anderson from the FMCSA called me back...no need for CDL, No need for Authority, and no need for DOT number for personal use when I transport this machine for personal use....appears all the regs apply for business use / business transportion etc... )he went through regulation 383.5 under the commerce section of rules and regulations

    I asked him if the different states had to be contacted regarding their rules on the matter and he said no he is federal and that supercedes state since I would not be classified as commercial then commercial state regulations would not apply to me in my case.....I am saving his name and number just in case!....only thing better would have been for me to tape the conversation but seems like everything is a go....

    Hopefully my situation helps others in my same situation....and to a degree it restores my faith in the "system"

    Thanks for all you input and help in this matter.

    Andrew
     
  3. td15c

    td15c Well-Known Member

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    Messages:
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    Location:
    IL
    well that's good to no next time I get pull over by the DOT I will just explain to him how I am exempt from weight and license and CDL regulations because this is a personal use truck.
     
  4. Delmer

    Delmer Senior Member

    Joined:
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    WI
    :roll Yeah, then call your lawyer and have them figure it out together, that will definitely keep them from throwing the book at you:D
     
  5. tuney443

    tuney443 Senior Member

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    Occupation:
    excavating contractor
    Location:
    Dutchess County,NY
    Apparently Mr. Anderson must be directly related to Mr. Barney Fife as he has the regs completely wrong also. His answer to you regarding personal vs. commercial should have come Immediately from his lips,not any of this ''I'll get back to you'' stuff.This should be basic info the FMCSA can quote at any time. Nevertheless,383.5 is the definitions part of their authority.NOWHERE does it state ANYTHING regarding exemptions from needing a proper CDL if hauling for personal use.If your transporting combined weight of 26,001 lbs. or greater,that right there is called commerce,DOES NOT MATTER one iota what that weight is,the truck,tractor,trailer,the load of marijuana,oats,dead hookers,a backhoe---WEIGHT IS WEIGHT.Its all right here,happy reading,best to do IMHO while sitting down on the throne so be careful in there when you plug in your computer,here you go:Sorry,don't know how to hilight so go to line 13,starts with ''COMMERCE.''
    Part 383
    COMMERCIAL DRIVER'S LICENSE STANDARDS; REQUIREMENTS AND PENALTIES
    < 382 | 384 >
    printer friendly version
    Section Guidance
    § 383.5: Definitions.

    As used in this part:
    Administrator means the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administrator, the chief executive of the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration, an agency within the Department of Transportation.
    Alcohol or alcoholic beverage means: (a) Beer as defined in 26 U.S.C. 5052(a), of the Internal Revenue Code of 1954, (b) wine of not less than one-half of one per centum of alcohol by volume, or (c) distilled spirits as defined in section 5002(a)(8), of such Code.
    Alcohol concentration (AC) means the concentration of alcohol in a person's blood or breath. When expressed as a percentage it means grams of alcohol per 100 milliliters of blood or grams of alcohol per 210 liters of breath.
    Alien means any person not a citizen or national of the United States.
    CDL downgrade means either:
    (1) A State allows the driver to change his or her self-certification to interstate, but operating exclusively in transportation or operation excepted from part 391, as provided in § 390.3(f), § 391.2, § 391.68 or § 398.3 of this chapter;
    (2) A State allows the driver to change his or her self-certification to intrastate only, if the driver qualifies under that State's physical qualification requirements for intrastate only;
    (3) A State allows the driver to change his or her certification to intrastate, but operating exclusively in transportation or operations excepted from all or part of the State driver qualification requirements, or
    (4) A State removes the CDL privilege from the driver license.
    CDL driver means a person holding a CDL or a person required to hold a CDL.
    CDLIS driver record means the electronic record of the individual CDL driver's status and history stored by the State-of-Record as part of the Commercial Driver's License Information System (CDLIS) established under 49 U.S.C. 31309.
    Commerce means (a) any trade, traffic or transportation within the jurisdiction of the United States between a place in a State and a place outside of such State, including a place outside of the United States and (b) trade, traffic, and transportation in the United States which affects any trade, traffic, and transportation described in paragraph (a) of this definition.
    Commercial driver's license (CDL) means a license issued to an individual by a State or other jurisdiction of domicile, in accordance with the standards contained in this part, which authorizes the individual to operate a class of a commercial motor vehicle.
    Commercial driver's license information system (CDLIS) means the CDLIS established by FMCSA pursuant to section 12007 of the Commercial Motor Vehicle Safety Act of 1986.
    Commercial learner's permit (CLP) means a permit issued to an individual by a State or other jurisdiction of domicile, in accordance with the standards contained in this part, which, when carried with a valid driver's license issued by the same State or jurisdiction, authorizes the individual to operate a class of a commercial motor vehicle when accompanied by a holder of a valid CDL for purposes of behind-the-wheel training. When issued to a CDL holder, a CLP serves as authorization for accompanied behind-the-wheel training in a CMV for which the holder's current CDL is not valid.
    Commercial motor vehicle (CMV) means a motor vehicle or combination of motor vehicles used in commerce to transport passengers or property if the motor vehicle—
    (1) Has a gross combination weight rating or gross combination weight of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more), whichever is greater, inclusive of a towed unit(s) with a gross vehicle weight rating or gross vehicle weight of more than 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds), whichever is greater; or
    (2) Has a gross vehicle weight rating or gross vehicle weight of 11,794 or more kilograms (26,001 pounds or more), whichever is greater; or
    (3) Is designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver; or
    (4) Is of any size and is used in the transportation of hazardous materials as defined in this section.
    Controlled substance has the meaning such term has under 21 U.S.C. 802(6) and includes all substances listed on schedules I through V of 21 CFR 1308 (§§ 1308.11 through 1308.15), as they may be amended by the United States Department of Justice.
    Conviction means an unvacated adjudication of guilt, or a determination that a person has violated or failed to comply with the law in a court of original jurisdiction or by an authorized administrative tribunal, an unvacated forfeiture of bail or collateral deposited to secure the person's appearance in court, a plea of guilty or nolo contendere accepted by the court, the payment of a fine or court cost, or violation of a condition of release without bail, regardless of whether or not the penalty is rebated, suspended, or probated.
    Disqualification means any of the following three actions:
    (1) The suspension, revocation, or cancellation of a CLP or CDL by the State or jurisdiction of issuance.
    (2) Any withdrawal of a person's privileges to drive a CMV by a State or other jurisdiction as the result of a violation of State or local law relating to motor vehicle traffic control (other than parking, vehicle weight or vehicle defect violations).
    (3) A determination by the FMCSA that a person is not qualified to operate a commercial motor vehicle under part 391 of this subchapter.
    Driver applicant means an individual who applies to a State or other jurisdiction to obtain, transfer, upgrade, or renew a CDL or to obtain or renew a CLP.
    Driver's license means a license issued by a State or other jurisdiction, to an individual which authorizes the individual to operate a motor vehicle on the highways.
    Driving a commercial motor vehicle while under the influence of alcohol means committing any one or more of the following acts in a CMV—
    (a) Driving a CMV while the person's alcohol concentration is 0.04 or more;
    (b) Driving under the influence of alcohol, as prescribed by State la
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 27, 2015
  6. tuney443

    tuney443 Senior Member

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    Location:
    Dutchess County,NY
    Being having a mistress is as ''personal'' as one can get,maybe all of us with CDL's and DOT compliancy can tell that gestapo DOT officer ''I have 20,000 pounds of red roses and they're for my mistress sir.''A Mr.Anderson over there at FMCSA headquarters says ''it's not business,it's personal.'' For sure,he'd have the bestest ''you know what this moronic trucker tried BSing me with today'' story!!!!!!
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2015
  7. maddog

    maddog Senior Member

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    middle TN
    This may come as a shock to you or maybe it won't, at just about any given time ANY driver can be found guilty of something. I was even harassed once for my truck being to dirty :D
     
  8. maddog

    maddog Senior Member

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    Location:
    middle TN
    Here are the key words "over 26,000" according to the OP he will be under. What would concern me is the towing capacity of the truck and condition of truck and trailer. If his truck can legally pull 20K then so be it.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 27, 2015
  9. td15c

    td15c Well-Known Member

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    Dec 4, 2007
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    Location:
    IL
    now that my truck is for personal use no more overweight permits this is great wish some body had told me this year ago.
     
  10. tuney443

    tuney443 Senior Member

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    Occupation:
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    Location:
    Dutchess County,NY
    Actually,the correct terminology on the computer generated ''warning'' notice you get is ''Untidy housekeeping''.Yup,happened to me also.ANY ''hard'' goods,tire beater,hammer,tools have to be on the right side of the tunnel on the floor.
     
  11. td15c

    td15c Well-Known Member

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    he said the truck sticker is about 11K GVW and the trailer is 24K GVW the key word is gross vehicle weight rating
     
  12. tuney443

    tuney443 Senior Member

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  13. CatToy

    CatToy Well-Known Member

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    Location:
    SE Tn
    Got a little recent experience in this area. I purchased for private use a Cat 933 a few months ago and as luck would have it on the way home, I was on the side of the interstate checking what I thought was a loose chain and a DMV inspector pulled in behind me. I have a F350 with gooseneck 12 ton trailer and no CDL as I was told by local DMV several years ago it was not needed for private use. He was nice and asked me if I needed help but did snoop around a little and asked several questions about what I was doing. I explained I just bought the loader and was on my way home. He asked what I did for a living and if I used my truck to make any income or if I had a CDL both of which I said no. I asked him if there were any problems, he said no but that I should watch to not put the load to far forward and that needed to chain the bucket down in addition to the loader (hmm, never thought that was needed since it is permanently attached). He did ask several questions about my permanent semi-trailer tags on my trailer but he seemed fine after talking. He wished me a good day but did follow me several miles before turning around.

    It should have been obvious that I was over 26001 pounds and by many others on the this post I should have a CDL but according to the inspector that "helped" me as long as you are private not needed. Now if I was driving a tri-axle dump claiming it was private, he may have not been so nice.

    BTW -I also own a backhoe, skidsteer and several tractors all just for fun but are used on several properties I own and I move them all the time on the interstate passing many troopers and never been stopped.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2015
  14. CM1995

    CM1995 Administrator

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    Location:
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    Hence the "playing devils advocate" statement.;)

    Personally I think it's ridiculous that personal use is exempted on RV's and any other vehicle combinations on the roads that would otherwise require a CDL if used for business. It should either be all regulated the same or no regulation at all.:cool2
     
  15. tuney443

    tuney443 Senior Member

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    Location:
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    I have no idea what a DMV inspector is as I think you mean DOT but regardless,that day you dodged a bullet.Troopers are NOT in charge of truck regulating--again, that's DOT.
     
  16. tuney443

    tuney443 Senior Member

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    Dutchess County,NY
    You're absolutely correct CM1995.I always say if I ever hit the lottery,I'm buying me the largest Prevost chassis,will have most of the RV niceties removed,leave all the vents and awnings on the outside.There will be a huge hydraulic ramp to load any and all of my ''toys'' so when I go by the DOT checkpoint,I'm going to crank on my train horn and wave to them.Even if they come after me for whatever,I'll be in the green now,so what?
     
  17. Randy88

    Randy88 Senior Member

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    tuney443, I'm thinking you add up the gvw's on the truck and trailer only, the total weight of everything, including the load must not exceed 11,000 plus 24,000 or a total if my math is right, 35,000 lbs including truck, trailer and load, not 48,000 lbs, but I agree totally on the cdl thing.

    Cattoy, was the officer in your state, or state's away when he pulled you over?

    I understand some states operate differently than others, answers are given all the time by those behind desks, once I was told I didn't need a trip permit to travel four states away to pick up a machine, first scale pulled me over, chatted and I had to wait for a trip permit to show up before the truck was allowed to move, turns out nobody cared what I was told, the officer that told me what I was going to do was in charge, when I called to complain to the moron that told me some line of bull, well....................sorry about that, but what the dot officer told I needed onsite, overruled moron number one on the phone, same goes for every state I went through on the way out and back. Ask Barney fife if he's going to pay for any and all fines on your behalf, put that in writing and fax a copy to you signed by another moron in the office, might even want a notary sign it as well, then go get a class A cdl and apply for all the right permits, just in case their wrong, but do as you wish, after all its not my money or license.

    The last thing to remember at all times, all attorneys are right, but in court 50 percent of them lose each time they go to court, not a very good track record in my book if you look at overall averages, the thing you need to ask yours is, what percent of his cases he wins, compared to loses. Just an observation over the years.
     
  18. tuney443

    tuney443 Senior Member

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    Yes Randy88,you are correct,don't know why I added in more weight,probably a brain fart,sorry,but still,like you said,he still needs a CDL.
     
  19. Awhelan

    Awhelan Well-Known Member

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    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
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    Location:
    Ontario
    Found this:

    Operators of vehicles having a manufacturer’s gross vehicle
    weight rating (GVWR) of 26,001 or more or a combination of
    vehicles with a gross combination weight rating (GCWR)
    of 26,001 pounds or more if the vehicle(s) being towed has
    a GVWR of more than 10,000 pounds are required to hold a
    valid CDL permit.
    The following situations exempt operators of certain
    vehicles from the CDL requirements.
    1. Operation of a vehicle for personal use only, such as
    a recreational vehicle or truck to move your personal
    belongings.
    2. Operation of a fire truck or other emergency vehicle.
    3. Operation of a farm vehicle that meets all of the
    following conditions:
     Controlled and operated by a farmer.
     Used to transport agricultural products, farm
    machinery or farm supplies to and from a farm.
     Strictly for farm use and not used in the
    operation of a common or contract motor carrier.
     Used within 150 miles of the vehicle owner’s
    farm.

    Got it here http://www.dmv.state.va.us/webdoc/pdf/dmv109.pdf
    Section 3

    Here in Ontario they make no exceptions for personal use when towing over 4600kg (10141lbs)
     
  20. mitch504

    mitch504 Senior Member

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    Good Luck, and I hope you don't get caught while in another state.
    Mitch
     
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