Hayes trucks in the logging industry

[Hayesno1]

Hayesno1 Yes thats her in all her glory good old 6-250 and then the fire tanker unit 36-120 was BCFP Unit no 6-219 also a Caycuse Division Truck. I can tell by the last picture that you found her in Campbell River hiding in the back of that yard HaHaHa Good Job

Thanks for information HDX. Yes she was hiding well away from road. I took pic of sn-plate. She was parked beside a KW 849 dump truck. I guess those 2 trucks will not see any action anymore

2 pics of Steele Rock Logging unit #2 HDX at Beaver Cove, summer 2010. That truck is in very good condition

 

[HDX]

Hayesno1 Yes that old 36-120 and some of her sister trucks in that series came with the Cummins 903 V8 engines. When these engines finally failed they were replaced with the good old standard 12V71N. I will track down the HDX you pictured there looks very interesting She has had a rebuild somewhere down the line -headlites have been changed as well as new style hood and air cleaners 12V71TT and the water tank is a new one not sure if it was a Promac one or not The power steering tank has been moved from under the hood on the firewall to being bolted to the front of the cab-this was done because with all the plumbing done with the install of the TT engine they didnt have room under there I would also say that the owners have put the new style bunk on her also with the twist and lock instead of the older "Horseshoe" lock type You know the more I look at her the more she smacks of an ex Saunders truck or a Company truck just a shot there all will be revealed when time permits

 

[Hayesno1]

Well HDX more pics of #2. I can't see if it got a Promac tank as I can't see tank has been stamped with "logo" like Port McNeill trucks with Promc tanks.

 

[Hayesno1]

Steel Rock unit #4 and #7. They are in pretty good shape as #2. Allthough #7 seems to have worn out front springs. Both HDX models seem to have new fenders

 

[HDX]

Hayesno1 They are in very good shape for todays industry standards The water tanks ARE HAYES with new style ladders on both sides #4and 7 have new fenders with quad headlites and #7 has had the front bumper widened to match the fenders but #2 is still pretty original (still think she is an old M&B truck) just smacks of it thats all Time will tell

 

[JDOFMEMI]

So, as I follow this thread, I am learning all sorts of things. Do I understand that the headache rack doubles as a water tank? If so, how much, and what for?

 

[Hayesno1]

So, as I follow this thread, I am learning all sorts of things. Do I understand that the headache rack doubles as a water tank? If so, how much, and what for?

Yes that's correct. Standard on HDX model was a 400 gallon water tank. Water is used for cooling brakes

 

[HDX]

JDOFMEMI Look at Hayesno1's last picture in posting #63 It is a side /rear view of a typical Hayes HDX water tank it shows the 400 gal water tank as well as the fuel tank. Follow the tank from the top down until it has a sort of extra tank welded onto it at the back. You can see what I mean cause it looks like part of the tank itself but it is a 120 gal fuel tank. The problem with this is after many years and getting hit with logs while loading (long logs) it tends to cave in that part of the tank. What happens is because the water tank is under pressure ( usually 12 lbs) the wall between the fuel /water tank develops cracks inside because the baffles are welded between the two and the air pressure will actually force water into the fuel tank This becomes a major problem because the fuel tank has to be cut open and welded. For a normal shop out here what they do is cut the whole fuel tank off and make a new one and make it independant of the water tank so it cant happen again . This does not happen all that much but remember these trucks have had a severe service life for over 35 years. The last Hayes was built 35 years ago and there is lots of 1960's and 1970's Hayes's still doing their duty in the bush. The trucks Hayesno1 has in his last postings would be about 1969-1972 models so you can see where metal fatigue would set in. If this post confuses you let me know and we can explain this a little further OK

 

[Hayesno1]

Pics show Dave Mills HDX unit #6 heading down a side road to Bamfield Main -. just a few miles North of Bamfield. My GMC truck is parked at left. At 2nd. picture you can see steam when cooling breaks

 

[JDOFMEMI]

Thanks guys.

I had figured the fuel tank as well, but didn't know/expect them to share a common wall. I can imagine that there would be some serious problems when the fuel and water mix.
For the brake cooling, is it just a spray system? does that mean you fill the water tank daily, just like the fuel, or is it some kind of closed loop?

I know, I am full of questions. These sure were well built trucks. It is a shame that their limited market and the long life contributed to the makers demise. It seems just now that similar trucks are making a comeback of sorts in the mining industry. Western Star, KW, and the Haulmax are all making trucks with the heavy specs these Hayes had.

If they had maybe broadened their horizons, maybe they could still be around today?

 

[Hayesno1]

Thanks guys.

I had figured the fuel tank as well, but didn't know/expect them to share a common wall. I can imagine that there would be some serious problems when the fuel and water mix.
For the brake cooling, is it just a spray system? does that mean you fill the water tank daily, just like the fuel, or is it some kind of closed loop?

I know, I am full of questions. These sure were well built trucks. It is a shame that their limited market and the long life contributed to the makers demise. It seems just now that similar trucks are making a comeback of sorts in the mining industry. Western Star, KW, and the Haulmax are all making trucks with the heavy specs these Hayes had.

If they had maybe broadened their horizons, maybe they could still be around today?

It is not closed loop system. When following those mighty queens you will see a wet track behind them. I will find some pics - scan and post them. HDX knows how often you have to fill the water tank. I guess it somehow depends on road and driver.

 

[HDX]

Dave Mills bought this#6 truck from Truesdale's over in Sechelt a few years back. The water system is filled at least once a day depending on how steep the hills are and how many trips you make per shift If the haul you are on is steep then you water up EVERY trip if its not too steep then you dont use as much water so you can maybe haul for a couple trips before watering up. The 12 lbs of air in the water tank is what actually pushes the water flow to the trailer. 3/8ths water pipe to each wheel and the water spout is usually mounted at the 10:00 -2:00 position so the water will flow over the drum as the wheels are turning When coming down a steep hill with 100Tons or more of logs the water on the drums cause's steam and you can tell how you are driving by watching the steam--Too little steam and you are going too slow and too much steam and maybe your going too fast its like a formula so to speak The weights we are playing with are unreal The truck and trailer empty weighs 40 tons --then add 100-120 tons of logs and then a 32 percent grade and it gets interesting Hayesno1 can maybe show you the water spouts. OH by the way its easy to break a drum using your water wrong. We have 8 brakes 4 truck 4 trailer the brake size is truck 7x20 and trailer is 8x20 most highway trucks up here have 12 brakes 6 truck 6 trailer and their brake size is 16 1/2x8 5/8 truck and trailer plus they have two front brakes on the steering axle that are 16 1/2 x 5 now this is on a typical tri-axle logging truck and tridem log trailer so this gives you kind of a picture of how much more brakes the average highway truck versus off highway trucks and the most tri -tri log trucks can haul legaly 55,000KGs over the scales For off highway we dont have scales you figure the weight by log scale in meters so for most part 1 meter= 1 ton

 

[Greatwestcam]

When in steep country you could be filling the tank every trip and still be careful not to over use it. You always want to see steam when you have the water on or else there is a problem with that line/brake, ie brake not working right or a damaged water nozzle. What was great fun when hauling on roads that the public could access was to keep the brakes a tad warm, then when meeting the tourist run somewater to get steam showing everywhere and make a face like you couldn't stop! People would stop and run or try backing up real fast, they new that they wern't to be on the roads during work days.

 

[Greatwestcam]

Hey HDX, what year did Hayes start putting the lip on the doors? the little piece that you rest your arm on when the window is down, was it 73 or 74 ? And good detail on the water system, now if we could show them 32% grade!

 

[woodhauler]

What a animal these trucks are! They need them on the golden road up here in maine!

 

[JDOFMEMI]

OK, I get it. With the water, you are spraying the outside of the drums to keep them cool.
What kind of shoe life would they get in those conditions?

I am duly impressed with these trucks. I run 35 and 40 ton articulated trucks, and have run on 40% grades, but not at speed for miles on end.

 

[Hayesno1]

Dave Mills bought this#6 truck from Truesdale's over in Sechelt a few years back. The water system is filled at least once a day depending on how steep the hills are and how many trips you make per shift If the haul you are on is steep then you water up EVERY trip if its not too steep then you dont use as much water so you can maybe haul for a couple trips before watering up. The 12 lbs of air in the water tank is what actually pushes the water flow to the trailer. 3/8ths water pipe to each wheel and the water spout is usually mounted at the 10:00 -2:00 position so the water will flow over the drum as the wheels are turning When coming down a steep hill with 100Tons or more of logs the water on the drums cause's steam and you can tell how you are driving by watching the steam--Too little steam and you are going too slow and too much steam and maybe your going too fast its like a formula so to speak The weights we are playing with are unreal The truck and trailer empty weighs 40 tons --then add 100-120 tons of logs and then a 32 percent grade and it gets interesting Hayesno1 can maybe show you the water spouts. OH by the way its easy to break a drum using your water wrong. We have 8 brakes 4 truck 4 trailer the brake size is truck 7x20 and trailer is 8x20 most highway trucks up here have 12 brakes 6 truck 6 trailer and their brake size is 16 1/2x8 5/8 truck and trailer plus they have two front brakes on the steering axle that are 16 1/2 x 5 now this is on a typical tri-axle logging truck and tridem log trailer so this gives you kind of a picture of how much more brakes the average highway truck versus off highway trucks and the most tri -tri log trucks can haul legaly 55,000KGs over the scales For off highway we dont have scales you figure the weight by log scale in meters so for most part 1 meter= 1 ton

Thanks HDX. Here are a few pics of water spouts. And again it's HDXs great WHD that is "responsible" for my shots. pic from cab shows valves with those you can controll water. Sorry GreatwestCam I don't have any pics of 32%

 

[Hayesno1]

Sorry forgot picture from #26 cab. From left side of Pumpkins cab

 

[HDX]

Greatwestcam 1973. You see a lot of older Hayes's with these doors now because whenever one of these trucks was scrapped or somebody changed the cab--ie swapped for a P16 cab the doors were always a prize. Some outfits tried to add their own stiffner to the old doors and it would work but the original was best Hayes only put them on cause as you know the door would start to crack right at the butterfly window then it would always squeek Actually the doors were the secret to saving the Cab -when the dovetails in the door jam would wear out or fall off cause the driver was beating the crap out of the truck if you didnt replace them right away the cab would sure as hell start to crack and split in the top door openings front and back I think you seen as many as me do this. As for 32% grade well you know its about there when you break over a hill and cant see the road anymore cause it dropped right off the face of the earth and a 45lb brake application does very little. OH then add snow and a little ice and NO WATER and no grader HaHaHa

 

[HDX]

Hayesno1's picture #78 shows a typical off highway "Water Tree" that is what we call them You can see in the picture looking down on it there is two taps and a funny lookin handle with rubber on it. OK the taps regulate the water flow to the brakes. If you are new to a truck you ALWAYS check your water flow believe me YOUR LIFE DEPENDS ON IT- so you would turn these taps off. Then set the air pressure to the water tank at 12 lbs no more or very little more because these are not air tanks and it is easy to blow the tank open at the seams if you use too much air pressure. OK there is two taps there one for truck and one for trailer so you would start by opening the truck tap and watching your water flow on the truck drums when you think its where you want it leave it and go to the trailer tap Do the same thing here only you gotta do a lot of running back and forth. When you have both these taps set to the flow you want dont touch them again. When you start down the hill loaded all you do is reach down and flick that handle with the rubber on ahead --this turns the water on to your brakes. This truck still has an original "Saunders Valve" (that is what that handle is called) All offhighway trucks have these water trees and some highway trucks equipped with small water tanks have a similar water system on them. In the winter we cant use water because the entire system will freeze up in no time.You can see a brass thing on top of the system there with a black button that is a "blowdown valve" it is used to blow all the water out of the water lines after you use them in the winter or if you think it will freeze overnite this stops water from freezing in the lines I dont want to overwhelm or bore some of you guys with this so I will stop here OK