Hayes trucks in the logging industry

[jackd]

I missed much of the carnage that happened to the logging divisions in Port Alberni, because I left with the first wave back in 1982. I do have contact with individuals who soldiered on through these times and they seem to have been jostled around quite severely over the last 3 decades. My guess is that the downsizing isn't over yet. I wound up in the Airline industry and the situation is very similar and is also ongoing. It's actually easier to move an airliner to another region or country much easier than a logging truck - you just fly it there.... The management also realizes this and often play one workforce against the other in this little game - it's called divide and conquer. I'm almost glad that my working years are almost over but I fear for the young guys coming up to fill my shoes. Thankfully the new generation knows better than to tie their horse to the cart of their employer and their lack of engagement to working for a living is going to be to their benefit.

 

[PacificEd]

Another interesting thing about Hayes sander H278 is the rear differentials. It is the only Hayes HDX I've seen in logging service with the Clark 121,000 lb rear axles.

 

[Hayesno1]

Some pictures of a 1964 HDX 32-80 model. Some kind of self- and preloader truck. Look at reach all most like a telescope. It even got a MB door from H32. Pictures were shot summer 2005 at Cameron Div. Truck is still around but has seen better days.

 

[Hayesno1]

Pics of my favorite Hayes model - The WHD model. "W" indicates it got a 40" wide frame. First 3 pics show ex Linehamm WHD. Present owner might be Olson, CR. Last 2 pics is a very unique WHD. I think HDX has posted some comments re this truck.

 

[HDX]

PacificEd No they were not as common as the BD91,000 but they were an option from Hayes. Remember that the majority of these trucks Pacific P12--P16 and Kenworth 849--850 and the HDX's were already an expensive truck and where you were hauling dictated did you really need 121s or were the 91,000s doing the job. The 121s were VERY expensive options and some Contractors in fact did buy them --they swore by them cause they had used them before.Also it took twice as long to do a brake reline on the 121s whereas you could do two relines on a 91,000 in the same time frame The 121s were bulletproof and went for a long time without failure and when they did they were big bucks to repair My personal feelings were it was all in what you had the money to buy. Phone around now and try and find 121 parts!!!! getting harder to find all the time. Everywhere you look there is BD91s in the scrapyards because everything from trucks to rubber tired log loaders had them and im here to tell you that there is log loaders being cut up all the time. The Contractors up here are just going to the scrappys and getting them to cut out the rear diffs and buying them--only thing you gotta change is the drop gears cause of the low ratios

 

[trakloader]

Thanks for information re owner of H321. Any information re Hayes has my interest- and hopefully others. I guess I am "insatiable". H321 came in a series of 6 units to MB all preloaders; numbered #H316 to #H321. They all had set forward axles. As far as I know only #H316 has been scrapped the rest are still going strong/parked. #H317 is working as a tractor for Surespan, Vancouver. #H318 present owner is LLL. Truck runs with a huge dump trailer. Re #H319 later HFP #T8158 I am not sure if it has been sold. As you mentioned HDX #H320 is still running with you guys. Re #H321 I think it might be at QCI, but Trackloader will know.
TorkelH has posted a picture of #H316. See link:
https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/showthread.php?t=16755&page=14
Pic1 shows #H317 summer 2000, Pic2/3 show #H318 at LLL shop summer 2005, Pic4 shows HFP #T8158 ex #H319 at Sarita summer 2005.

H-321 was up here for some time, but vanished last year some time. No idea where she went!

 

[Dave Hadden]

After reading through this thread and noting the timing of the sander boxes mentioned by HDX as being early '70's and on I'm wondering if the bad accident we had at Gold River in the early '70's had anything to do with their construction and coming into use.
One winter morning a contractor drove his gravel truck full of sand up in behind and past a grapple yarder in order to sand the road so the log trucks could get up there. He had two guys with him who got out and climbed into the back once he'd turned around. Standing beside each other they started shovelling sand as soon as the truck started down the hill while raising its box. Unfortunately, whoever had hung the guyline off the grapple yarder to a backspar stump didn't flag it so in the dark nobody saw it and when the raised box hit the guyline it tore the box off the truck, flipping it over and killing the two guys in the back.
After that there was no shovelling sand from the back of a truck done as a method of sanding and we quickly got a fancy sander with a spinner on it that was always breaking down.
I'll never forget that morning though.
Bad time.

That's why I wonder if that made WCB mandate a safer way of sanding afterwards?

Take care.

 

[Hayesno1]

Here are two pictures I got from HDX. Pics showing IT's H278 sand truck when it had tipped over winter 2008/09 at Cameron Div.

 

[Hayesno1]

2 pics of an old tired HD ramp truck summer 2005. Look no door handle but she was still going strong in 2005.
2 pics of ex MB #H110 - later Timbermill truck where it got "Christmas" colours. Pictures were shot on Mainland, BC this summer. Present owner unknown.

 

[HDX]

DaveHaddon I remember when that happened because we did the same thing here at Franklin River. The worst was winter of 68 remember that one God I get cold just thinking about that winter. Fuel froze in the fuel tanks of all the logging trucks yarders were kept running all nite long under tarps, Well the fuel didnt exactly freeze just turned to jelly --The gravel trucks with the two guys in the box was common and then they even tried towing a rear end with a "A"frame and a spinner device attached to the yolk on the rear end so when it was being towed the wheels would turn and the axles would spin this abortion --the guys in the box would turf the sand onto this thing and it would throw sand everywhere. They even tried using sawdust but same thing first truck locked up and dragged all the stuff off the road. You are right though about the two guys. Very sad and yes then the pressure was on to come up with proper sand trucks and Smith was right there.

 

[Dave Hadden]

Hi again.

Thought there might be a connection there regarding those sanders.

The reason I'll never forget that morning is because I ....not having heard anything about the accident yet.....cracked a joke to Cliff Malazgar, the contractor and driver as he stood next to his truck that was sitting there without a box on it.

"Don't look now but somebody stole the box off your truck," I yelled at Cliff as I walked to my office in the shop.
I laughed and waved as he stood there talking to Cliff Holst, the General Foreman.
He gave me a funny look.

About five minutes later a couple guys came into the shop and I heard what had happened.
You can imagine how much of an a-hole I felt like, and I was later able to apologize to Cliff. He knew I didn't know so didn't pay no mind to it, but I've always felt bad about that.

And I too recall the winter of 67/68, particularly the big freeze-up of the pulp mill at Gold River. It had just started production in '67, the year I started working at it, and during the Christmas/New Years period it was shut down for maintenance for several days. Then, all the lines were filled and preparations were started to flash up the mill again. Unfortunately, that was the night the big freeze moved in and the whole mill froze up solid, breaking darn near every valve in the place. We'd had a lot of snow before then but from then until into March we had daily small snowfalls that blew around and created drifts all over the place and I recall my car being frozen in for nearly two months before I could dig it out. I seem to recall total snowfall accumulations for Gold River as being in the 16 foot area that year.
By far the worst winter I've ever endured on Vancouver Island.
Oh, and you have no idea how many bloody valves there are in a pulp mill.
We had truckloads of them come in for quite a period before we got back up again. I know because I unloaded all the trucks back then.

Also enjoyed your mention of the 121,000 lb Clarks above. As you noted there weren't many around but they weren't unknown. The best way to be set-up was to run 91,000 Clarks and carry either 13.298-1 or 15.033-1 ratios, as they could be changed back and forth via different drop gears. A 12.00-1 ratio had different case halves though so they were unique and not a lot in use either, unless you had a long haul on good roads. Also, it was always better to have the front rears as spares as they could fit either front or rear position whereas a rear could only go in that spot.
Carry a couple of spare rears, a couple sets of drop gears and some Clark brake parts and you were good to go most places and had a couple of gear ratio choices available.

In the 60's and '70's I recall being told that if a guy yarded with Madill, loaded with American and hauled with a Hayes or Pacific he'd have to be real poor at logging to not make any money.

My how times have changed.

Take care.

 

[HDX]

DaveHadden I know Cliff well and whenever im up your way I always run into him. As for diffs where things went sideways was if you took the Allison trans out and put in a set of sticks or a roadranger trans you had to go to 11:1 ratio to get any roadspeed out of the truck. I restored a 1973 WHD ex Elk River Timber #26 and sure could not afford an Allison so we stuffed a 1263A main and a 1241C aux in her looks factory with all Hayes Clutch linkage and everything but top speed with 15:1 is about 25 MPH My wife found a set of 11:1 drop gears and that was Christmas present one year so now all that needs to be done is get her over a pit for a day and change them. There was a formula for that conversion and I think it went you could change 15:1 and 13:1 to 11:1 without changing casehalves but then there was something about 12:1 and this was where casehalves had to be changed Do you remember????

 

[Dave Hadden]

Howdy HDX,

I'm not familiar with the 11.00-1 ratio at all and the thing about the 12.00-1 vs the 13.298 or 15.00-1 ratios was indeed the different case halves.
I remember that because back when I was getting a bunch of stuff together for a show at Turnbull Cove for Lemare Lake Logging we had everything set up for the trucks that had been selected to go over there once it started up. They were all 15.00-1 BD 91,000 Clarks so everything that was used in conjunction with that set-up was sent over and set up in a parts trailer.
Everything was laid out at the Kilpala shop, where I worked, and off I went for Christmas shutdown. So into the new year and we start that show up....first day.....first load down the road and the truck blows a diff.
They radio over about it so I tell them there are two spares in the trailer etc etc.
A few minutes later comes the return call that the diff that is on the truck that is broken was a 12.00-1 ratio and wasn't likely to work well with the 15's that were there in the trailer.
This confused the heck out of Jack DeWitt and me as we hadn't sent a 12.00-1 ratio over there.
Turns out that the old man (or maybe his kid Eric) had decided to send over another truck at the last minute so they grabbed one that was new to them and had been sitting out back for a month or so. It hadn't been checked out or even looked at that I was aware of.
Nobody thought to check the diffs in it, that's for sure.
12.00-1 ratio is not the right one for short green new roads either. LOL
Cost a pretty penny to charter a chopper and then carry over a couple of 15-1 diffs to get that truck going and in the meantime nothing could get around it.
Sort of a case where wanting more production but not thinking things through cost a lot of bucks and lost production.
Anyway, for sure the 15.00-1 and the 16 something to one were slow slow slow, which in a lot of cases along the coast here was about all you wanted to go anyway. At Gold River we were all 13.298-1 which was a compromise between the offroad hauling requirements for slow and steady and the highway hauling requirements which was a bit more speed oriented.
As west coast loggers we sometimes overlook the fact that those diffs were originally designed for big cranes in dockyards and the like and hardly had to move quickly at all in that application. We basically took those diffs and put them in a logging truck, loaded 100 tons of logs on and sent it off down the road at 25 to 40 MPH.
No wonder the darn things broke.

I was never much of a mechanically oriented type guy but when you buy parts for logging equipment that ranges in age dating from the '40's to brand new you can't help but learn a bit about how things operate.
I sure wish I could remember better all the different machines I bought parts for over the years though.
In Gold River we actually had a couple of what had originally been Pacific chain drives (circa late '40's) that had been converted to the 4640 Timkens set-up and were still hauling logs when I arrived in 1969. I thought they might have been called Stirlings or something like that when they were chain driven, but I could be totally mistaken there too.
And I see Cliff around now and then and I really feel bad that I spelled his name wrong in my other post.
It's Mlazgar, not Malazgar. DUH!

Anyway, gotta go now and finish the dishes.

Take care.

 

[Hayesno1]

Well here are some pictures of "HDXs" Elk River #26. She looks like she just left the factory line or even better, great job HDX

 

[Hayesno1]

HFP's Hayes HDX trucks in summer 2005

 

[HDX]

Good old #7, Reg Smyth bought it new in jan/74 s/n 6016 and it became unit #7 12V71N with 5speed main and 4 speed aux Al Burdick was the first driver and he stayed on her right up till he retired. Was sold to Pat Carson after Reg passed away and Al went with her and then Hayes Forest bought out Pat Carson and they renumbered her T457 but she was and always will be #7 was sold after Al retired and it went to the Queen Charlottes and is still hauling up there. This truck should have been given to Al when he retired he earned it!!!! Trakloader knows it well--as for T0721 that truck was one that HFP bought and rebuilt I will get the serial # this week and run it and see who got it new---I seem to recall BCFP something rings a bell but I will scope it out

 

[HDX]

Hayesno1 Thanks for posting pics of the "Pumpkin" she looks really good there

 

[Contract Logger]

Well here are some pictures of "HDXs" Elk River #26. She looks like she just left the factory line or even better, great job HDX

What a beautiful piece of Island history- I have been admiring her through pictures for a couple of years now.

You are doing everyone a service in this restoration, saving a piece of yesterday for those who will arrive tomorrow.

Good on ya' friend- She could not have turned out any better!

 

[Hayesno1]

Some pics of a Hayes HD steel spar that is on display at Prince George Railway Museum. It's a 1954 Hayes model HD 20-60; sn#4031515

 

[Hayesno1]

Pics of Hayes HD 22-48 - sn#0112202 from 1960. Truck is at display at Sayward Junction North of Campbell River. Pics were shot summer 2010.