Grapple for Full Size TLB

[Tinkerer]

Tinkerer,
Are you saying that you grab a large log and carry it a good distance (like acres) with the thumb on the backhoe. I would assume if you are, then rotate the boom to the side as cheroniekon talked about. I never thought about this for distance. It seems the weight over one side would make the tractor unstable?

Yes Swetz, I can carry good sized logs for miles if I wanted to. On the farm nothing is too long. I can go thru gates or between trees easily by going through at an angle and manipulating the hoe at the same time. Most of the time I just extend the boom up for gates. Depends on how heavy the tree is.
I do sometimes carry logs with the boom swung to the side. Boom all the way up and dipper nearly all the way in. Weight of the load is the limiting factor when carrying like that. I usually extend the stabilizer under the log / tree to help carry part of the weight.

 

[Swetz]

Tinkerer,
That is great information. Although I have operated many types of equipment, and fixed many types of equipment for a living in the past, I am new to owning property that I will have to maintain. 43 acres is a bit more than the 1/2 acre I have lived on for the last 25 years. My application is a bit different than yours though. My property is mostly wooded, no farming is going on, but hearing from multiple people that it is safe to carry items in the back bucket over a distance is good info.

With the knowledge that this thread has produced, I am not going to sweat it if I find a deal on a backhoe, but it doesn't have a 4 in 1 loader bucket. I now know that there are other options such as the grapple or a thumb. With this in mind, I can focus more on the condition of the tractor rather than exclude good units because they do not have a 4 in 1 loader.

Thanks all!

 

[aighead]

Tinkerer, using the stabilizer as an arm is genius! It'd take me a billion years to think of that!

 

[Nick G]

If you had a heavy duty thumb on your backhoe, aighead, you could maneuver long trees n logs very easily with it. I have no desire for a 4n1 since I installed my thumb.
They are super handy for stacking a burn pile. Even when its burning.

Tinkerer,
I'd really like to put a thumb on my 310SE. Did you build your own? Could you post pics? I'd like to build one. Then I need to figure out where to get the power for that hydraulic circuit. I do have an extendahoe.
Thanks
Nick

 

[Tinkerer]

I bought mine from Titan Industries, Nick. Their heavy duty model. The cheaper one bent too easily.
Unfortunately mine is not hydraulic.
mg2368 is the Deere expert. He will need your serial number to determine what you have.
I'm sure he will read this along with other members that know about the hydraulic circuit on your machine.

 

[Nick G]

My SN is 848306. Thanks for the info on Titan.

 

[mg2361]

To operate a thumb you would need to add a "sixth function" control valve section which I am not sure is still available in kit form. You would have to get individual parts to do that. You would have to add an auxiliary function (AT194368) plumbing kit to your machine as well. You may want to contact the company below to see what they offer.

http://www.hctkits.com/

 

[Nick G]

To operate a thumb you would need to add a "sixth function" control valve section which I am not sure is still available in kit form. You would have to get individual parts to do that. You would have to add an auxiliary function (AT194368) plumbing kit to your machine as well. You may want to contact the company below to see what they offer.

http://www.hctkits.com/

mg2361,
Thank you for the info. Sounds like a project to me

 

[Swetz]

Hello All,

Lately I have been clearing trees on my property for my garage, and I am back to thinking about a grapple for the front bucket. Anyhow, I searched around again, and this time, in addition to the titan unit, and the one Tinkerer found, I came across another made by MDS Manufacturing out of South Dakota.

My question is, does anyone have any experience with this company, good or bad?

I called today, and was not impressed with the salesman...he kinda seemed to just want to hang up as I fired off questions. But, the unit looks like it would do exactly what I want, and it is made specifically for a full size TLB, as an add-on. The price I was quoted was $2995 plus freight, which the person told me is typically a couple hundred dollars (I did not ask for an exact quote). I was also told that the unit weighs approximately 500#.

Link Below:

https://mdsmfg.com/retro-fit-grapple/

 

[NH575E]

No experience with them but that unit doesn't look all that strong for that price.

Have you thought out the hydraulics? I found a part number for a 4th spool but not sure how it could be used without building some sort of linkage. The setup for a 4 in 1 bucket would be ideal but I shudder to think what the cost and work involved in fitting it all would be. The way they split the hydraulics under the cab on our machines makes it very inaccessible. Might could use two diverter valves.

I gave up thinking about it and just added the grapple to my small tractor. This grapple cost me $1260 delivered and I spent $280 on the diverter valve and fittings.

 

[NH575E]

This guy added one to a 555E but I never gained a clear understanding on how he used a single diverter valve. His hydraulics are probably configured different since he has an open station. He had his loader converted to skid steer which I think is too weak for our loaders.

https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/threads/grapple-for-555e.7905/

 

[Swetz]

NH575E,

Thanks for the comment.

I have thought a bit about the hydraulics, not a lot. I have 2 thoughts. 1. Tap into the unit hydraulics for the stabilizers, kinda like #4 below. I would run a electro/hydraulic valve with a relief and power beyond.



2. Install a 2-way, 12 volt hydraulic pump/motor. This would be an easy install, and would prolly be fine for the limited use (cycles) that the grapple would require.



I would love to find one like the Titan that could have mounts welded to the top and sides of the bucket. First the Titan is only good for 84" and mine is 88", and second, the titan does not have a 3rd mount in the middle, which doesn't seem strong either. The NH675E has a nice flat top that would be great for mounts.

 

[Swetz]

NH575E,
I forgot to mention that I really like the setup on your Deere. I also have a NH CUT that I could put the grapple on, but it does not have the quick connect bucket system, and adding a couple hundred pounds to the existing bucked (add-on grapple) would kill me as it only has a 900# lift now.

 

[NH575E]

You could add a couple of these?
http://greens-machine.com/catalog/i2.html

A machine shop could build one of these easily.

If I were to consider it any further I was thinking about adding two selector valves on the curl cylinder circuits. It wouldn't work to just interrupt one side since that circuit splits at the SCV. I think it would work okay to tie them into a single switch and power source. I think the hoses are 3/8" with 1/2" (-8) ORFS ends.

This is the valve I used on my JD. It has -8 ORB ports so should be easy to find adaptors and hoses to make it happen. All it needs is a 12V power source and a momentary switch. I used a starter button on mine but the amp draw is very low on these units.
https://www.baileyhydraulics.com/SELECTOR-VALVE-SOLENOID-OPERATED

At the end of the day I wonder how useful a grapple clamp would be on a bucket with closed sides?

 

[aighead]

I felt like I was going to be speaking out of place but I'm going to agree with @NH575E and say that unit looks to be a bit lacking in the oomph aspect. I don't know that I'd trust the bolt on tines to not bend all out of whack or bend the bar they are attached to... I also don't know what I'm talking about...

@NH575E that's a cute little guy! Could be handy!

 

[Swetz]

The reason I was looking at the stabilizer circuit is because it has a lower GPM than the backhoe circuit, and, you wouldn't need to operate the stabilizers or backhoe extension when using the loader, thus you would maintain full front loader operation.

I hear you on the grapple bucket being the hot setup, but I will really need the loader bucket for all the dirt and stone I will be moving, and switching them out without the quick system would really suck.

As far as strength, I really do not know. It does have a 4-point weld-on mounting system, and the tines are mounted to a 2"x4"x1/4" wall tubing. I am not sure how much strength i would need on trees. I guess trying to grab a 3k# rock could be a bit different tho. At 500#, I really wouldn't want to add too much more weight than that to the loader bucket. I hope someone on here has dealt with this company so they can say they had a poor or great experience. It would be even better if someone on here has this setup and can comment.

 

[NH575E]

The port size on the stabilizer control is -14 ORB. Just saying.

 

[mitch504]

Trees can really destroy a thumb or grapple, and whatever it's mounted to. You have so much leverage, 25' of tree sticking out one side catches on something, you're done if it is clamped tight. I have seen that destroy the stick on a big excavator, before the "operator" knew anything was wrong.

 

[Swetz]

NH575E, I get your point, there will be way more flow in the stabilizer circuit than I need, with a 16GPM rating on that back pump (not all goes to the stabilizers tho, because of the priority for steering). A flow control could be mounted in line to take care of this, and the excess oil could be routed back in the system as it normally would be.

The things we discuss here are the reason that I was thinking, why not just mount an electric driven pump up under the chassis, with a toggle switch attached to the loader control stick, and keep the tractor hydraulics intact. To me, the cost would be much better as well.

https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200335621_200335621

 

[NH575E]

I wonder if one could use one of these cheap pumps from Amazon. They are a little short on giving specifications and seems most have British fittings but Parker has adapters.

https://www.amazon.com/12-volt-hydraulic-pump/s?k=12+volt+hydraulic+pump