Grader Shopping

[Blue-Fox]

I have a soft spot in my heart for Cat products but I see a major benefit to retaining the steering wheel like Deere has. I lost a great operator this season to a job with an M series. I have one of my best operators that has essential tremors which affects his ability to accurately control fine motor function. He does fine with a rack, and can run a Hoe like mad, but all the micro switches and joystick/switch only steering could be an issue. Likewise what’s a guy supposed to do in a Cat M with arthritis? Some of us have old people problems at younger ages than the rest. I’m leaning away from the M series as much as I’d like to have one. They really are high tech gamers paradise.
The H series are bringing more money with high time on the clock than some M’s are ! And Deeres GP are competitive. I see a big jump in tech. Dollar for dollar though, Cat H vs Deere D/G/ GP I think the Deere has more power, more function and more comfort. But I’ve personally never run anything newer than the 90’s Champion. Tough decision.

 

[John C.]

When I worked for NC they kept getting into bidding wars with the dealer in Montana over graders. The state would lease 20 machines at a time with guaranteed buyback programs. At one time there were about 40 used graders in their used machine stock. I don't know what is going on with them now but you could check out their web site.

New graders are huge money now. Used 140H models when I was chasing them never sold for less than $90,000. We took in Deeres of the same size that sold for close to the same. The Deeres then were joy stick steering and then had a small steering wheel in addition to the joy sticks. All of them were nice to run. I didn't like that electronic pad up on the right side of the cab that controlled all the auxiliary stuff plus it had push button start there. All in all though, the H model Cats I think were the best I've ever been in both for the operator and the guys keeping them running.

 

[Silveroddo]

The first time I got in our 770g at work the shop manager gave me a key and told me where it was parked……. Neglected to mention the key only worked on the door. Spent a solid 20 minutes and 2-3 phone calls before I figured out it was strictly push button start……….. Really mentally cussed out the supervisor that sent 3 foreman that would never run it to the dealer training instead of the guys who would be.

 

[Blue-Fox]

Would you guys be scared of a 2008 160M with 15,000 hrs? For sale from a Cat dealer.

 

[John C.]

My question would be, did it come from Montana and how long has the dealer had it in their rental fleet? All those government returns ended up being rented to get some kind of return on the obscene trade values given to keep Deere out of that state.

 

[DB2]

Would you guys be scared of a 2008 160M with 15,000 hrs? For sale from a Cat dealer.

Does it come with the service history? At 15K hours the big components are gonna start to need rebuilding if they haven’t already been attended to.

 

[20/80]

Would you guys be scared of a 2008 160M with 15,000 hrs? For sale from a Cat dealer.

You would have to give a little more info on the machine, like same engine, did Cat do all the servicing, kinda thing

 

[Rob Corden]

We have a couple units in our fleet a '13 772GP, and a '14 140M2 both with 13000hrs and I can attest to the major components needing upgrading when your hours get up in this range. I personally would stay away from anything with 10K or more hours on it.

Does anyone have any experience with Komatsu Graders? We are looking at bringing in a brand new unit and this is $100K cheaper and we can see it in 6 months if we order in Jan. compared to JD who is saying 8-12 months min.

 

[Blue-Fox]

You would have to give a little more info on the machine, like same engine, did Cat do all the servicing, kinda thing

There’s no maintenance history in the report so I’ll have to inquire. The root of my question stems from the Cat maintenance schedules, but from my own experience there’s machines that far outlive the schedule and just running jobs as a road maintenance machine is light duty and easy on parts compared to construction jobs. Seems like by 15k it would have been through the overhaul shop already.

 

[John C.]

Around here government run graders get some of the hardest use in the shortest period of time. They also become the graders that the contractors end up with when cycled out of the fleets. Depends a lot on which counties they are in. East of the Cascade range they get 2,000 or more hours a year doing snow in the winter and gravel roads in the summer. On the west side they basically just sit and the control joints just lock up from the junk that falls out of the evergreen trees. Most of the contractor stuff never gets more than 500 hours a year. Parking lots aren't too hard on things.

 

[cuttin edge]

If you're not doing any fine grading, it doesn't have to be super tight. A little slack won't hurt, so I guess hydraulics, drive train and electrical would be more important. A machine from a smaller township like Oversized runs would be a great find, but how often do they trade up?

 

[Blue-Fox]

Around here government run graders get some of the hardest use in the shortest period of time. They also become the graders that the contractors end up with when cycled out of the fleets. Depends a lot on which counties they are in. East of the Cascade range they get 2,000 or more hours a year doing snow in the winter and gravel roads in the summer. On the west side they basically just sit and the control joints just lock up from the junk that falls out of the evergreen trees. Most of the contractor stuff never gets more than 500 hours a year. Parking lots aren't too hard on things.

nice to know that, I would say you have a good point. Market is different then here for sure. Thanks!

 

[Blue-Fox]

If you're not doing any fine grading, it doesn't have to be super tight. A little slack won't hurt, so I guess hydraulics, drive train and electrical would be more important. A machine from a smaller township like Oversized runs would be a great find, but how often do they trade up?

My oldest 74 Cat 12G was just that, purchased from the city with about 10k hours on it. It’s been the workhorse of the company for near 30 years. @26k hours now. Transmission is finally worn out. She only goes in 1,2,3. Can’t complain.

 

[Blue-Fox]

We have a couple units in our fleet a '13 772GP, and a '14 140M2 both with 13000hrs and I can attest to the major components needing upgrading when your hours get up in this range. I personally would stay away from anything with 10K or more hours on it.

Does anyone have any experience with Komatsu Graders? We are looking at bringing in a brand new unit and this is $100K cheaper and we can see it in 6 months if we order in Jan. compared to JD who is saying 8-12 months min.

My rival has a pair of 655’s and they seem like a pretty good machine.

Between the 772 and the 140 what would you say are the good and bad? Which machine would you personally take and why?

 

[20/80]

Both good machines, the 140 is a M or a H series? what are the hours on both and service history and what year are they, also what type of work did they both do, ex, working on a construction site or working for the county, all plays a role in your choice, if you need parts which brand would be the easiest to get help and what dealer would be better to deal with in your location, also price and do you get any warranty with any of these machines, even 30 days means something.

 

[Blue-Fox]

Both good machines, the 140 is a M or a H series? what are the hours on both and service history and what year are they, also what type of work did they both do, ex, working on a construction site or working for the county, all plays a role in your choice, if you need parts which brand would be the easiest to get help and what dealer would be better to deal with in your location, also price and do you get any warranty with any of these machines, even 30 days means something.

I would totally agree with your points there for sure. Biggest piece of that being local dealer service quality.
In his reply he has both a 140m2 and 772gp. That’s what I was asking about.

 

[20/80]

When the hours climb up on the M series from experience lots of gremlins start happening especially the older ones, and can be both frustrating and expensive, while I am running a new Cat 150AWD and has been mostly trouble free for the last year I would not want to own one personally after the warranty run out, I only can say that because we have a older 140M that has been alot of trouble from day one and had a lot down time, also our sister shops have had lots of troubles and down time with the M series also, we have a few JD's in the fleet and have been good machines for the most part, we haven't had the GP series of John Deere's only the rack systems, a Cat 140H would be my go to grader if buying used, that's my honest opinion, hope this helps.

 

[westerner]

I spent 20 years in the county equipment shop. The last 3 as supervisor. Retired in 2020.

We ran plus or minus 2 dozen graders.
When I started, they still had a few 140G. Most were H mosheens, with at least 6 143 AWD rigs. There were still 3 JD graders left in the fleet, but they were not memorable.
Towards the end of my career, we got 6 140M1 graders. In my very last years there, the M3s were starting to get rotated in.

I would strongly recommend the H.

 

[Blue-Fox]

You would have to give a little more info on the machine, like same engine, did Cat do all the servicing, kinda thing

I finally got an update from the Dealer, Finning CAT. Its been in around Prince George BC most of its life, maintaining roads. Comes with new chains, Snow tires are 70%, Full inspection repairs and service completed. Full differential and finals were rebuilt, Strong runner, work ready. Comes with a ripper, mastless wing and a front lift group and 4 way dozer plow.

When the hours climb up on the M series from experience lots of gremlins start happening especially the older ones, and can be both frustrating and expensive, while I am running a new Cat 150AWD and has been mostly trouble free for the last year I would not want to own one personally after the warranty run out, I only can say that because we have a older 140M that has been alot of trouble from day one and had a lot down time, also our sister shops have had lots of troubles and down time with the M series also, we have a few JD's in the fleet and have been good machines for the most part, we haven't had the GP series of John Deere's only the rack systems, a Cat 140H would be my go to grader if buying used, that's my honest opinion, hope this helps.

This is the kind of feedback Im looking for. I really want a solid machine that doesnt have issues. I already have five of them in my yard. I hear you about the H series machines. I have been hunting a lower time H series 143/163. They are super hard to find. I'm putting a newer balderson wing and rigging a front plow on my remaining 12G now for a backup machine until I get my champion problems sorted out.
When you say "gremlins" in the M series, what sort of issues are you having? I heard there's some ECM issues, etc.

 

[Blue-Fox]

I spent 20 years in the county equipment shop. The last 3 as supervisor. Retired in 2020.

We ran plus or minus 2 dozen graders.
When I started, they still had a few 140G. Most were H mosheens, with at least 6 143 AWD rigs. There were still 3 JD graders left in the fleet, but they were not memorable.
Towards the end of my career, we got 6 140M1 graders. In my very last years there, the M3s were starting to get rotated in.

I would strongly recommend the H.

Thanks, I really do like the H series. Just not a lot of guys excited to run them anymore.