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GL-5 in place of GL-4 in final drive

Discussion in 'Shop Talk' started by Don.S, Jun 16, 2019.

  1. Don.S

    Don.S Well-Known Member

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    The Takuchie tb180fr manual says to use SAE 90 GL-4 gear oil in the finals on this excavator. I am having a hard time finding GL-4 but can easily find GL-5 can I use that or might it be bad for something inside this compartment?
     
  2. Nige

    Nige Senior Member

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    GL-5 is a higher specification than GL-4 and is designed for differentials where the bevel gears have a higher hypoid offset, hence higher loading. I see no reason why the higher spec oil shouldn't work fine where the lower spec is the recommended oil.
     
  3. Don.S

    Don.S Well-Known Member

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    Thank you very much for the reply. That is what I figured but I wanted to make sure that the extra additives or what ever would not be hard on seals or something not designed for it.
     
  4. skata

    skata Senior Member

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    the only gl4 i could find was in the outboard motor drives oils.
     
  5. gwoade

    gwoade New Member

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    If there is any brass, bronze, or copper in the final drives, GL5 can cause excessive wear. Manual transmissions in automotive applications with brass syncros will see severe loss of material if using GL5 when GL4 is specified by the OEM.
     
    tpitt likes this.
  6. Birken Vogt

    Birken Vogt Charter Member

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    Been a long time since I have heard this question. Since transmissions using GL-anything are rarely seen these days.

    I found this, looks like it was written by a hobbyist, but it looks legit.

    https://widman.biz/uploads/Transaxle_oil.pdf
     
    Nige likes this.
  7. Nige

    Nige Senior Member

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    The other option commonly available would be to switch to an SAE 50 TO-4 oil. GL-spec oils are pretty much consigned to the Age of Steam.....

    And before anyone mentions viscosity (90 vs 50) they are measured on two different scales, so a 50 TO-4 is actually the same viscosity as a 90 GL-spec oil.
     
    wornout wrench, GregsHD and kshansen like this.
  8. Nige

    Nige Senior Member

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    A very good article. Interestingly he makes the same point as I did regarding viscosity comparisons between SAE50 TO-4 vs SAE90 EP oil.
     
  9. skata

    skata Senior Member

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    saw this at my local farm supply store today and thought of this thread.
    0617191823.jpg
     
  10. walkerv

    walkerv Senior Member

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    Just mack transmissions and i have contemplated running the synthetic 50 in them that eaton recomends for their transmission.
     
  11. Don.S

    Don.S Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the info about the TO-4 oil that sounds like a simple solution.
     
  12. earthscratcher

    earthscratcher Senior Member

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    the trainsaxle oil read is a good one, i have switched all bearing drive stuff to cat50 to4, even my skid steer which calls for 10w30.nige is there ever a situation in a final drive type setup where you would not recommend it? i know willie uses it to increase life in finals on cdr60 crawler loaders. i also had a guy with a fleet of deere 750 dozers that was doing lots of finals until he started using cat50 to4. on my komatsu hoe i think it spec sae30 for the turntable bearing, i use it in there to, its places like this that i am unsure of, what do you think?
     
  13. John C.

    John C. Senior Member

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    Komatsu has used 30wt engine oil in all the excavator and dozer finals that I ever worked on. I was told by a factory rep that the gears are loaded in such a way as to never need EP oils. Their concern was making the bearing last as long as possible. In reading the article above though, I will note that Komatsu uses yellow metal in all the thrust washers on the planet gears and that identifies for me what I had been looking on final drives that broke. The usual scenario was the final would lock up and the operators would try to backup or drive through it not knowing the problem was broken gears. When pulling the drives apart we would just note the amount of damage, determine if any parts could be salvaged and then declared the unit beyond economical repair and throw it in the scrap pile. We had just assumed the gears failed. One key item noted in a failed final drive was the smell when we opened the plug or pulled the cover. It was so bad that people would think it was a natural gas leak. Turns out it was gear oil that shouldn't have been used in that application. There isn't much room in those cases so now that I think about it the thickness of the thrust washers keeps the gears in line so they don't touch any teeth turning the other direction or the same direction but much slower. On thinking back on the problems now I think maybe the gears didn't fail at all, the thrust washers wore prematurely from the wrong oil which allowed the a gear to get out of proper alignment.
     
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  14. Nige

    Nige Senior Member

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    I have not come across a situation yet where TO-4 would not work in a final drive or axle situation, or even any type of reduction gearbos full of bearings/bushes and gears, but then again there must be loads of situations of which I have no knowledge whatsoever, so it's hard to say.
    I think I posted somewhere before a lot of detail about switching Hitachi PTO, swing drives, and final drives from GL-spec oils to TO-4 (much to Hitachi's disgust), and the oil analysis results improved out of all proportion. My opinion of GL-spec as Steam Age lubricant is I think valid. TBH I would be immediately looking for other oil options on any machine that specified GL-whatever oils in any system.
     
  15. Shimmy1

    Shimmy1 Senior Member

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    Nige, I have a 1998 Case 1150G, JJG0257251, manual calls for 135H gear oil. Previous owners were running (I'm guessing here, I know it wasn't 30 or 50) 20 wt hydraulic oil in the finals. I put 85W140 in, years ago we had an 1150C with identical finals and never had issues running gear oil. Machine has 5700 hrs, one final has been swapped (different color paint and plugs). What say you? Thanks.
     
  16. Nige

    Nige Senior Member

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    If it was mine I'd put an SAE50 TO-4 in it, maybe with some anti-squeal additive if there are wet brakes in it.
    However to give things a bit of context the circumstances I'm usually in are that most of the fleet is specced to run TO-4 oil in the rear end, final drives, swing drives, etc, anyway. Having an EP gear oil as well means another tank on the lube truck, another storage tank, another line system in the shop, etc, etc. So if 80+% of gear oil compartments are running TO-4 it makes sense to run the rest on the same oil if at all possible. I can only speak for myself, but the results of going from EP to TO-4 were excellent. Judging by his comments on HEF, I think heymcall has had similar experience.
     
  17. mog5858

    mog5858 Well-Known Member

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    dodge used it in there NV 4500 speed. but it's discounted it's was 35.00 per L hear in Canada. as the 5 speed used brass sinrows.