1. Thank you for visiting HeavyEquipmentForums.com! Our objective is to provide industry professionals a place to gather to exchange questions, answers and ideas. We welcome you to register using the "Register" icon at the top of the page. We'd appreciate any help you can offer in spreading the word of our new site. The more members that join, the bigger resource for all to enjoy. Thank you!
  2. ALL NEW MEMBERS READ THIS FIRST!! Thank you for joining Heavy Equipment Forums! If you are new to forums we communicate with "Threads", please search our threads to see if your topic may have already been answered and if not then click "Post New Thread" in the appropriate forum. This will allow all of our members to see your question and give you the best chance to be answered. After you've made a number of posts you will graduate to Full Member status where you'll see a few more privileges. Following these guidelines will help make this the best resource for heavy equipment on the net. Thanks for joining us and I hope you enjoy your stay!!

Genie TMZ 34/19 Error Code "0000"

Discussion in 'Forklifts/Telehandlers' started by sgray, Oct 3, 2012.

  1. qarm

    qarm Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2012
    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    Brisbane Australia
    Many Thanks VooDoo Mojo

    The setting of the machine at present is how I last put it away in my shed and that is :

    All outriggers up
    Booms fully down as we do set for towing.

    Was operational last time I used it.

    Last time I used it when putting in the shed I cleaned the platform and in doing so lifted the boom from the lain controls rather than the platform that I normally do just for cleaning purposes.

    Then when I went to use it after charging and turned it on all the outrigger lights flashed and kept flashing.
    They normally stop flashing and allow me to put the outriggers down and the light for each then come on normally.

    The condition that they are in presently with the outrigger lights flashing it does not allow me to put any outriggers down.

    The turntable attempts to rotate but of course it cant because the boom is fully down and does not allow it to turn because it is locked in the V rest.

    Idid some testing in accordance with your schematic.

    With the machine off and in its present fully stowed position I checked the following.

    The large black plug to make sure the all the connectors are in their positions,

    Using a tester I did the following:

    With the plug unplugged I checked pin 25 and 24 and found complete circuit.
    I checked pin 22 and pin 10 and found complete circuit
    I tested 16 and 4 and found complete circuit
    I tested pin 20 and pin 8 and found open circuit
    I tested pin 30and pin 19 and found open circuit
    I tested pin 33 and 23 and found complete circuit
    I tested pin 14 and pin 3 and found complete circuit
    I tested pin pin 18 and pin 6 and found open circuit
    I tested pin 29 and pin 17 and found open circuit
    I tested pin 32 and 21 and found complete circuit

    So these all appear to be as per the schematic

    The LS27 I do not know where that is although it tested in the circuit with LS2 and LS11 ok it says in the schematic that LS27 is turntable but I do not see any limit switch for the turntable unless it is inside the gear assembly area which is really hard to tell with all booms down etc.

    I tested the batteries with the voltmeter and found each of the 4 batteries to be 6 volt or slightly under and reconnected and tested at the quick release and found just under the 24 volts which on my tester then showed about 23 volts fully charged.

    After doing this testing I checked the large plug and re plugged it in and turned the machine on and found the lights will still flash and alarm sound preventing from activating the outriggers.
     
  2. VoodooMojo

    VoodooMojo Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2012
    Messages:
    344
    Occupation:
    Sr Technical Service Representative
    Location:
    Baltimore, East Coast USA
    tmz outrigger limit switches.png

    Use the B- connection of the motor controller as a ground connection for your voltmeter.
    Verify that there is 24 volts at terminals 24 and 22 of the outrigger plug with the power turned on at the upper and lower controls. All connections in their correct places.
    This is coming from the ecm.
    If the voltage is not there, the ecm is defective.

    With the machine in the stowed position there should be 24 volts at terminals 25 and 10.
    This is showing the limit switch circuits are working correctly.
    If the voltage is not there, there is an open in the limit switch circuit. Could be a switch or wire.
    If so:
    TEMPORARILY run a jumper wire between terminals 24 and 25 and another jumper wire across
    terminals 22 and 10.
    If the alarms and flashing quit then it is evident there is an open in the limit switch circuit.

    NEVER operate the machine with the limit switch circuit by-passed.
    This is for testing ONLY.
     
  3. qarm

    qarm Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2012
    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    Brisbane Australia
    Hello VoodooMojo

    Oh thanks for your help.
    I will check that in the morning
    If the ECM defective does that mean a new circuit board?
    I guess thats the expensive bit too.

    Will let you know what I find
     
  4. qarm

    qarm Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2012
    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    Brisbane Australia
    Hello VoodooMojo

    Ok I tested for the ecm as per instructions:

    I unplugged the large plug
    I turned the machine on
    I tested pin 24 and pin 22 of the open plug with a voltmeter using the B- as the ground and found no voltage

    This as you say means that the ecm is defective.

    I also tested pin 22 and 10 and there was also no voltage

    It is amazing that you know so much about these machines which is a tremendous help to guys like me that have no knowledge at all.

    What is the next step?
     
  5. VoodooMojo

    VoodooMojo Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2012
    Messages:
    344
    Occupation:
    Sr Technical Service Representative
    Location:
    Baltimore, East Coast USA
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2012
  6. VoodooMojo

    VoodooMojo Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2012
    Messages:
    344
    Occupation:
    Sr Technical Service Representative
    Location:
    Baltimore, East Coast USA
    the "solder and heat shrink later" note in the above drawing refers to after the jumper wires are removed and the original wires are placed back in the circuit.
     
  7. qarm

    qarm Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2012
    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    Brisbane Australia
    Well thanks for your advice and we are certainly learning about this testing.

    So starting again:

    With every plugged and all connections in correct places.

    I tested and found 24 volts at pin 24 and pin 22

    I also tested and found 24 volts at pin 25 and 10

    I then used a jumper wire between pin 22 and pin 10 and another jumper wire between 24 and 25 turned the machine on and still find that the outrigger 4 lights flash and the alarm sounds so the machine is still not behaving correctly even with the jumpers in place.

    I guess this means that the problem as you say is ecm generated?
     
  8. KES

    KES Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2012
    Messages:
    8
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    Recently did the upgrade on the controls for the 34/19 and once I found the switches in the controllers don't seat perfectly sometimes, I had the lift working fine. On about the 3rd job, everything still worked fine except the turntable. Switch for the turn table activates the valve, but not the pump (turns manually with ease, but not under power). Any suggestions on the cure for this. I have checked connections, but am not sure at what point the relay for the pump receives power through this switch. All other controls start the pump just fine.
     
  9. VoodooMojo

    VoodooMojo Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2012
    Messages:
    344
    Occupation:
    Sr Technical Service Representative
    Location:
    Baltimore, East Coast USA
    Is it the same problem from both the upper and lower control station or just one of the stations has the issue?
     
  10. VoodooMojo

    VoodooMojo Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2012
    Messages:
    344
    Occupation:
    Sr Technical Service Representative
    Location:
    Baltimore, East Coast USA
    If you could take a few voltage measurements we can narrow this down to the source of the problem:

    1)...do you have 24 volts on terminal 20 at the lower control box when you press the Rotate switch and the Up or Down switch?
    yes or no?

    2)...do you have 24 volts on terminal 22 at the lower control box when you press the Rotate switch and the Up or Down switch?
    yes or no?

    3)...do you have 24 volts on terminal 23 at the lower control box when you press the Rotate switch and the Up or Down switch?
    yes or no?

    4)...do you have 24 volts on terminal 37 at the lower control box when you press the Rotate switch and the Up or Down switch?
    yes or no?

    5)...do you have 24 volts on terminal 1 at the DC Motor Controller when you press the Rotate switch and the Up or Down switch?
    yes or no?

    6)...how many volts are present on terminal 3 at the DC Motor Controller when you press the Rotate switch and the Up or Down switch?
     
  11. KES

    KES Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2012
    Messages:
    8
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    Checked 20,22,23,&37. Ironically, with wire 22 disconnected from the top terminal of the top left relay, the lift rotates and operates fine. I am not sure to what you are refering as the DC Motor Controller. Any ideas why it is working fine without the wire connected and what I should look for?
     
  12. VoodooMojo

    VoodooMojo Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2012
    Messages:
    344
    Occupation:
    Sr Technical Service Representative
    Location:
    Baltimore, East Coast USA
    The DC Motor Controller is the component that does not look unlike this:
    rotate motor controller.png

    Looking at the schematic with the relay you disconnected while it is connected,
    current flow looks like this:

    rotate tmz relay 10 connected.png
    Relay 10 (A) is the relay you disconnected.
    When it is connected, it will activate when Rotate is activated.
    This takes the 3.3 volt Zener circuit from relay 7 (E) via Relay 14 through Relay 10 (A)
    and adds the Voltage Divider network (C) which will further reduce the 3.3 volts down to about
    1.8 volts. This will result with a lower voltage applied to Terminal 3 of the Motor Controller.
    This will result with a slower rotate speed.

    Looking at the schematic with the relay you disconnected while it is disconnected,
    current flow looks like this:

    rotate tmz relay 10 disconnected.jpg
    Looking at Relay 10 (A), the output is not directed to the Normally Opened (87) post
    of the relay but instead through the Normally Closed (87A) post.
    This will bypass the Voltage Divider circuit (C) and Diode B and put the 3.3 volt Zener circuit
    voltage to the Motor Controller Terminal 3.
    This will result with a quicker Turntable Rotate speed.

    This was the importance of the voltage reading at Terminal 3.

    The problem is somewhere between Post 87 of Relay 10 (A) and the Cathode side of the
    Diode B (the side with the stripe).
    Loose or open connection at the 1K ohm resistor from post 87 of relay 10, at the junction of
    that resistor and the diode, the diode itself may be open, or the connecten at the cathode side
    of the diode.


    Here is a drawing of the wiring diagram simplified:
    rotate tmz pic.png
     
  13. KES

    KES Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2012
    Messages:
    8
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    Wow... what a great help. The test would indicate the diode is indeed open. Any suggestions what might have caused this to happen? I have little issue in aquiring a new diode, but if there is an issue, I would like to look into that first.
     
  14. VoodooMojo

    VoodooMojo Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2012
    Messages:
    344
    Occupation:
    Sr Technical Service Representative
    Location:
    Baltimore, East Coast USA
    Diode manufacturers pop out more diodes than Carter's has little liver pills! There is a good chance that a few bad ones come along every now and then.
    (I dont know how many little liver pills Carters has or if they even still make them or if Carter's is still in the market of making little liver pills. It is something we used to say years ago and I wanted to say it again for some unknown reason.)

    The diodes are 6 amp with a PIV of at least 200 volts. There is nothing in the circuit other than a direct short across the diode at one time that would damage it. You will want to check the two 1KΩ resistors to verify one or both are not open/shorted or have a bad connection.
     
  15. scottwj

    scottwj New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2013
    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    Houston
    I also have TMZ34 I hope you can help me with. Its about a 1999 machine w/ manual downriggers. We used it earlier this week, no problems. It went out today and after leveling up and turning on, the horn sounds constantly, not beeping as it does when its unhappy. No controls work, Error code is '----'. I have been unable to find this condition in the manuals. This machine has occasional bouts of not working, but usually comes back to life by closing it up and then setting up again, also no error codes. Its always stored indoors, has recent batteries. Any suggestions? Thanks, Scott
     
  16. VoodooMojo

    VoodooMojo Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2012
    Messages:
    344
    Occupation:
    Sr Technical Service Representative
    Location:
    Baltimore, East Coast USA
    diligently check the connections on the J7 Power plug located at the bottom of the lower controls box.
    Be sure to trace out the circuits as well.

    the serial number is an important thing. models change as time goes by.

    tmz j7.png
     
  17. scottwj

    scottwj New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2013
    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    Houston
    I will check.
    For reference SN T3400-154
    Schematic ES0209

    Thanks,
    Scott
     
  18. VoodooMojo

    VoodooMojo Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2012
    Messages:
    344
    Occupation:
    Sr Technical Service Representative
    Location:
    Baltimore, East Coast USA
    here is ES0209 for your machine:

    Left side of schematic:
    tmz sch ES0209 L.png


    Right side of schematic:
    tmz sch ES0209 R.png

    they can be pasted side by side for a complete drawing.


    Two thoughts

    Has any option (alarm, beacon light, horn, work lights etc) been added to the machine recently?
    It is very important to not have any component tied to a chassis ground.

    Also check the battery supply connector at the bottom of the lower control box. From the inside of the box.
    Make sure there is at least 20 volts present with power turned on.
    This is the 2-pin large wire plug.


    edit:
    disregard the schematic in post #36. It is for machines with T3499-xxx serial numbers
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2013
  19. scottwj

    scottwj New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2013
    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    Houston
    First, I really appreciate your help.
    No options have ever been added to this unit, other than a floor in the basket (the aluminum expanded metal floor failed early on)
    It started working the next day- it was left set up overnight, but would occasionally stop working and then start again after
    some jiggling.
    Its back at my shop now, I will check your suggestions,
    Thanks,
    Scott
     
  20. VoodooMojo

    VoodooMojo Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2012
    Messages:
    344
    Occupation:
    Sr Technical Service Representative
    Location:
    Baltimore, East Coast USA
    The jiggling thing sounds like the connections at the plug.
    The female pins open up after awhile. They make a bad connection now and then.
    With all power off, disconnect the plugs from the control box. Remove the plastic cap and ever-so-carefully squeeze the pins back into shape.
    Also be sure the pins are held in place when the plug is reattached to the control box. Sometimes they get pushed back a bit.
    The plug at the platform pivot where the upper controls cable attaches can be a pain in the neck also.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2013