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Future Operators?

Discussion in 'General Industry Questions' started by John C., Feb 19, 2021.

  1. Tones

    Tones Senior Member

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    That I understand, its been going on for years, chainsaws replaced axemen, earthmoving equipment replacing the pick and shovel etc. But I think technology replacing operators is a step to far for the whole community and the social cost to high which won't be paid by those using it. Sure I've seen mining towns here in Australia with wages so high that people servicing those towns can't afford to live there and can't afford to travel because they don't get paid enough. Will technology smash those towns along with schools, hospitals ,doctors surgeries, local shopping centres and all the other business the make them flourish?
     
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  2. cuttin edge

    cuttin edge Senior Member

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    Mind control was discussed at length at the tavern one night after work. It was decided that the death toll would be too high because there is always that one prick inspector that you would like to... well you know.
     
  3. JLarson

    JLarson Well-Known Member

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    I don't think we really want to be tapped directly into the mind of your average operator.
     
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  4. 92U 3406

    92U 3406 Senior Member

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    Yeah controlling machine with my mind would be a terrible idea:

    "Stick out, boom down, curl bucket, stick in. I wonder what would happen if I smashed that half-ton into the hole????? OH F###!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
     
  5. CM1995

    CM1995 Super Moderator

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    My thoughts on the remote control as well.

    I get a chuckle out of the pictures and videos of the guy standing on a dirt pile in an open field running an enclosed cab skid steer - why the hell would I want to stand out in the elements running a remote control? I'd rather have my lazy butt in an air ride seat with A/C and a radio being able to see and feel what I'm doing.:p

    Now a remote control machine has it's place in hazardous environments but just get in the damn machine on a normal jobsite and run it.:rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2021
  6. John C.

    John C. Senior Member

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  7. JLarson

    JLarson Well-Known Member

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    Yeah if I'm doing site work at Chernobyl sign me up for the drone skid steer. :D
     
  8. AzIron

    AzIron Senior Member

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    Killed a lady about 2 years ago to when ran her over

    As for self operating equipment that wont fly on any job for lack of organization and what's the standby time on smart machine when the job is sideways and not moving not to mention 24 7 is unlikely an the metro area because there are people living close by usually

    Remote operation is un realistic as well because of people's in ability to not put there rebar or form work or pipe fittings or string lines in the way and then it's a 2 hour job to get it moved cm said it earlier the amount of stupid prevents it

    Engineers cant design things to be built in the first place with a year of pre planning and still have major revisions now add in programmers that dont see the job either and it will be the biggest cluster

    Yes cats been at the autonomous mining equipment since the 80s that's why they built tanaja hills for by Tucson to test there first driverless truck but mines are a highly controlled environment witch creates utopian work area for driverless equipment
     
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  9. JLarson

    JLarson Well-Known Member

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    Mines have mine money too so they have that going for them. They can afford to mess with the automated toys.
     
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  10. Nige

    Nige Senior Member

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    I can think of a load of operating environments in my world of mining where not having an operator in the cab could prove extremely advantageous. A dozer pushing material over a dump edge would be one such example. The dozer system is known as CMD (command for dozing) and in most of the promotional videos I’ve seen the operator was sitting in an air-conditioned container in what was effectively a simulator cab setup.

     
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  11. HardRockNM

    HardRockNM Active Member

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    Remote-control LHDs have been used in underground mines for decades, in unsupported open stopes and some drawpoint work. Line-of-sight remote control is still dominant but teleremote operation like that dozer system is becoming popular. Apparently some operators have run themselves over with line-of-sight RRC, which has driven the demand for teleremote. Remote operation of any kind is generally accepted to be less efficient than having the operator in the machine. Worse fill factors, tire wear, tram speed, and harder on the machine in general.
     
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  12. John C.

    John C. Senior Member

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    Autonomous isn't remote operation though. My brother was an electrician on A6 bombers in the navy. He told me that the planes in Vietnam could do everything autonomously except take off and land on a carrier or avoid missiles. He told me the story of a green pilot that was being a jerk so they set up the autopilot in the plane to turn the plane upside down every time the pilot engaged it. Now my brother does carry the genes for embellishing a story, but it does seem a little bit plausible.

    I would guess that remote controls work on radio frequencies. Is there an possibility or history of them being hacked.
     
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  13. cuttin edge

    cuttin edge Senior Member

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    Komatsu had information on autonomous construction machinery. I think they used drones and gps. I think they still had a man on site. MFE produced materials for Jamer. They had an automated crusher spread for the night shift. The day shift would produce more than enough material through the primary crusher to feed the secondary plant all day, and the stock pile would keep the night equipment going. I think it was piled over a massive hopper that would feed all night. sensors would measure the height of the material on the mouth of the cone, and slow or speed up the feed. Between the occupational health and safety people, and a few night spills, it didn't last more than a summer. In the event of a problem, the system would shut down, and call an emergency number. Not sure how that phone call would go. Probably no small talk. This was over ten years ago. The tech might be better. Still need the human in the mix. For now anyway.
     
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  14. HardRockNM

    HardRockNM Active Member

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    That's an interesting possibility that is worth some research. Besides for mining and equipment, my other occupational interest is two-way radio. My initial thought is that the RRC system will transmit a key or other verification word with each control transmission, with it likely being encrypted to prevent parsing it. That measure would prevent hijacking the RRC equipment but would obviously not make it immune to a noise-jamming attack. No reason it couldn't use FHSS on one of the ISM bands for jamming resistance, though.
     
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  15. LCA078

    LCA078 Well-Known Member

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    Every industry goes through automation enhancement.

    I started my career building computer chips in factories where every batch of silicon wafers (chips) was carried from tool to tool, loaded into the tool, and visually inspected by a human. When robotic loaders, automated conveyor systems, inline inspections systems, etc. came into play, everyone was up in arms that workers would be pushed out. Instead, the opposite happened: with more efficiency the factories became more economical and thus got a LOT larger. We had to hire more workers to install, monitor, fix, etc. all the automated machines. So yes, the number of people required to build one computer chip dropped very low but since the number of computer chips we built skyrocketed, we actually ended up employing more people.

    A couple other thoughts:

    1) The airlines, military, and commercial transportation have been talking about the "dream" of complete automation for decades where you remove all the humans. While it's very desirable to use robots in a lot of industries, it's also very hard to completely implement them in complete manner. IMHO, humans will always have their places in this areas for the foreseeable future. I think construction will also be in this area due all the unique challenges to simply automate.

    2) Automation can also be thought of simple increasing productivity or efficiency. Just like the first steam shovels replaced teams of oxen and men with pickaxes and shovel (I'm sure there was an uproar about those jobs disappearing too), industries that continue to increase their operational efficiencies (ie-get cheaper for their services) can actually grow and eventually employ more folks. The airlines are a good example. Airplanes became safer, cheaper, and more reliable to operate due to automation of the system (the plane) which eventually made what used to be a mode of travel reserved only for the rich now available to everyone. While today's airplanes are capable of full autonomous operation, the airlines employ lots of people include lots of pilots to still operate as an industry.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2021
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  16. Welder Dave

    Welder Dave Senior Member

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    One of the big issues that was brought up when Bomarc Missiles were supposed to be the latest greatest deterrent against a Soviet (or other) threat to N. America was that they don't allow for a human element to access the threat. The Bomarc was obsolete before it even went into service. Imagine how many planes could have been shot down because they went a little off course. Interceptors have proven to be the best option for decades since the Bomarc's were hailed as the wave of the future. That said I think planes like the F-35 are just a big waste of money. More of an experiment to see what is possible in my opinion and the billions and billions spent could be put to better use.
     
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  17. HATCHEQUIP

    HATCHEQUIP Senior Member

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    Ill bet the passengers on that flight that went down in the potomec were glad there was a real pilot in the seat and not that blow up pilot in that movie that I cant think of
     
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  18. Welder Dave

    Welder Dave Senior Member

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    Sully is a hero for good reason.
     
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  19. LCA078

    LCA078 Well-Known Member

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    That movie was Airplane and you're spot on as to why we we still have human in the front seat of those giant pressurized cigar tubes. Even if if that human pilot is 'tethered' via sat-com radio and sitting in an air conditioned room a few thousand miles away (think of the military drones in Iraq/Afghanistan), you'll still have a human 'driving it' for a long time.

    Otto was the name of that autopilot. And I really doubt you'll see Otto's anytime soon pushing dirt on a dozer.

    And yes, Airplane is a classic movie!
     

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  20. JLarson

    JLarson Well-Known Member

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    Lets face it, when it's feasible and cost effective companies will be all over it.

    Like I tell my minions, if I could replace you guys with a couple robots, a remote controlled excavator and a Roomba you losers would be out on the street already. lol
     
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