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Fuel treatments

Fuel Treatments

  • Always run a premium fuel

    Votes: 4 13.8%
  • Pour in an otc additive regularly.

    Votes: 11 37.9%
  • Pour in an otc additive occasionally.

    Votes: 11 37.9%
  • Never or rarely use an additve or premium fuel.

    Votes: 3 10.3%

  • Total voters
    29

salesrep

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2004
Messages
204
Location
Illinois
Occupation
Sales Rep
With the new and unimproved ultra-low sulfur fuel coming ( #2 fuel quality is decreasing). Who runs additives? Remember the last time fuel went to low sulfur content and the subsequent injector and pump problems?
Comments please.
 
Last edited:

salesrep

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2004
Messages
204
Location
Illinois
Occupation
Sales Rep
I thought that I would re-open this topic. I have begun to see much additional interest in my premium fuel sales ( we have a fuel improver that makes #2 diesel fuel a premium).

At the very least I think y"all ought to be adding a lubricity additive to your machines. The new ultra-low sulphur fuel has already began to go from 1500 ppm to an ultimate gaol of 15 ppm.

Sulphur adds lubricity. Without lubricity the risks of pump and injector failures will escalate without preventative measures.

Ask your fuel supplier what add pkgs he is indeed adding. Do not accept the generic answer of "We already treat our fuel"

They may indeed treat the fuel. But with what? anti-corrosion? biocide? lubricity?, detergency pkg? all of the above?
 

nobull1

Charter Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2003
Messages
198
Location
Nova Scotia Canada
Occupation
Same as interests
Salesrep,
So what's the scoop on yours? Biocide, cetane improver,emulsify-demulsify,lower waxing point,lubricity etc etc. What is your opinion on emulsifiers as opposed to demulsifying. Do you have a general statement or does it pertain to certain mfg's. This seems to be a sticker for some mfg's, some like emulsifying some like demulsifying.
 

salesrep

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2004
Messages
204
Location
Illinois
Occupation
Sales Rep
"So what's the scoop on yours? Biocide, cetane improver,emulsify-demulsify,lower waxing point,lubricity etc etc. "
All of the above. Plus cummins L-10 detergency n-14 corrosion specs.

As far as general statement goes. I think that both emulsifiers and de-emulsifiers can do a good job. The key is getting a product that performs as said.
 
Last edited:

puredieselpower

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
51
Location
Allen, Md
Occupation
I build Pole Buildings
Salesrep is schaeffer's fuel additive good to add to our diesel trucks, with the new fuel we all are going to have put additives in our diesels or mix with biodiesels.
 

dayexco

Senior Member
Joined
May 21, 2005
Messages
1,224
Location
south dakota
puredieselpower...your vendor must sell you some crap fuel when you're in the market to throw a bunch of additives in it.
 

puredieselpower

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
51
Location
Allen, Md
Occupation
I build Pole Buildings
dayexco said:
puredieselpower...your vendor must sell you some crap fuel when you're in the market to throw a bunch of additives in it.
Know just wondering what is going to happen next year when the lower sulfer fuels will be out.
 

dayexco

Senior Member
Joined
May 21, 2005
Messages
1,224
Location
south dakota
puredieselpower, you need to go to your fuel vendor, and say.......this is the minimum requirements my equipment manufacturer requires, can you meet it? if he can't, drive up and down the road until you find somebody that can.
 

puredieselpower

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
51
Location
Allen, Md
Occupation
I build Pole Buildings
it doesn't matter after jan 07 all vendors will be introducing the new ultra low sulfer fuels.
 

dayexco

Senior Member
Joined
May 21, 2005
Messages
1,224
Location
south dakota
i might be naive and foolish, but i truly can't believe that after jan. 7th...virtually every diesel engine in the united states is going to start to run like crap. or have bad fuel economy. that's not really the way the system works. i'm old enough to remember what everybody said when the talk was that we were going to have to burn unleaded gas in our vehicles...we survived.
 

puredieselpower

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
51
Location
Allen, Md
Occupation
I build Pole Buildings
I understand what you are saying, and however lower sulfer ( sulfer being a lubercant) there are bound to be problems. the reason why additives are important.
 

salesrep

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2004
Messages
204
Location
Illinois
Occupation
Sales Rep
2 cents worth.

ulsd and the quality of #2 fuel should be a concern to all. Many, many, many variables. Supply vs. demand for both additives and base fuel plays a large part: before the hurricanes set the industry back. Bio also is loosely regulated ( ask the minnesotians). I believe fuel treatments are an absolute necessity for preventitive maintenance. If you get a 1 or 2 % fuel economy gain by using treaments it pays for itself and more.

The pipelines will ship out the new ulsd with 3-6 ppm of sulfur to ensure that the end user gets the 15 ppms as per reg. (down from the curretn 500ppm)
This will be a very dry fuel and while lubricity additives will be added I do not think for one minute that the big boys will put extra in, so y'all better.
The older machines are at risk from a lubricity standpoint ie injectors, pumps.
While the newer 07 machine darn well better run ulsd as they are not designed for the "old" fuel.

"Oem's did not quite get thelubricity performance level we would prefer fpr diesel fuel" program leader for detroit diesel.

80% of all fuel is to be ulsd by oct 15. Newer machines will also strain the oil due to the egr deal.
Be prepared for prices to go up 5-9 cents just on the ulsd costs.

Treatments make good economic sense. A good one will boost fuel economy, give you a cleaner burn, add lubricity and all in all help prevent precious downtime and/or repair bills.

Variables, variables, variables and uncertainty are the biggest concern. Keep in mind as well that any and all tests done would have been done with the "best"fuel under typically ideal circumstances. NOT the real world and surely not the environment many of you work in.

The new hfrr device designed to measure lubricity req. cost 60k. Every fuel jobber in the country will not purchase these. Even the super jobbers are hesitant.

Imo. Some will do just fine. Some type of machines will perform as usual, some will not. Some fuel will be up to par, many batches will not be. Some machines will show effects sooner or later or not at all.

Historically ( pre ulsd) operations that run consistant fuel treatments have less fuel related problems and get better fuel economy and tht will be even more important in the future. Just cheap insurance.

Mark
 

dayexco

Senior Member
Joined
May 21, 2005
Messages
1,224
Location
south dakota
i'm 22 miles from minnesota border, i've run bio diesel in my equipment, trucks the last 2 yrs...knock on wood, zero problems. remember when they said they were taking the lead out of gas? that there wouldn't be a valve seat left because of it? i know of very few people that were dumping additives in their vehicles to get by back then. i'm not telling anybody to buy or not to buy whatever they want that makes them feel good about extending the life of their engines, nor do i have possession of any scientific studies that prove the use of them cost effective or a waste of money. i just go by what my fuel vendor tells me. he sells fuel additives on his shelf also. he's telling me to save my money.
 

puredieselpower

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
51
Location
Allen, Md
Occupation
I build Pole Buildings
dayexco said:
i'm 22 miles from minnesota border, i've run bio diesel in my equipment, trucks the last 2 yrs...knock on wood, zero problems. remember when they said they were taking the lead out of gas? that there wouldn't be a valve seat left because of it? i know of very few people that were dumping additives in their vehicles to get by back then. i'm not telling anybody to buy or not to buy whatever they want that makes them feel good about extending the life of their engines, nor do i have possession of any scientific studies that prove the use of them cost effective or a waste of money. i just go by what my fuel vendor tells me. he sells fuel additives on his shelf also. he's telling me to save my money.
Ask your vendor about the jan. 2007 change in fuel.
 

tuney443

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2006
Messages
1,216
Location
Dutchess County,NY
Occupation
excavating contractor
Dayexco--Do yourself a favor and log in to the Diesel Place.Go to the posts on fuel treatment and you will hear from real experts on the need for extra lubricity.Most of these guys are only trying to be helpful,most are NOT trying to sell you anything.I have regularly used Howes in all my diesels for years--for both lubricity and anti-gelling year round--NEVER had a problem and good piece of mind.Regards.
 

Jeff D.

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2005
Messages
1,280
Location
MN.
I would like to have my own storage tank and use the same vendor exclusively so that fuel quality could be less of a mystery.But,as of yet,I'm forced to buy my fuel "on the road" where you really don't know for sure what you're getting until it's too late.

I use additives 100% of the time during the winter.I know that NO supplier adds enough additives,or blends in enough #1,to prevent icing and gelling when the temp drops well below zero.Added to that the fact that diesel fuel has a high propensity for water contamination,and you're left on the side of the road trying to thaw frozen fuel lines and change filters at 25 below.I've had it happen many,many times.Most winters it happens at least once.

Since most heavy equipment isn't operated at -25 that scenario shouldn't be an issue.But the water contamination problem could be even worse with a storage tank that has low fuel turnover,and/or isn't monitored closely.If you happen to fuel,especially just after the tank was filled and any water present has been stirred up enough to become suspended in the fuel,you could get water in you equipment.With enough additives the water can be encapsulated into small droplets,and kept from being absorbed into the filters,or possibly getting through the filters,and splitting an injector.(injector tips can/will split if water is compressed within the injector.)

So,for extreme cold or water contaminated fuel,I'd think additives are almost a necessity,and it's doubtful the supplier/vendor could predict either problem very accurately,without personally monitoring your storage tank,or knowing the weather conditions when the fuel will be burnt.Also,water is where the bacteria that grows in fuel starts at(the thin layer where water and fuel meet),and it can grow to ruin all the fuel in a storage tank.Additives can help control that too,if the supplier hasn't already added any.

If you've a clean storage tank,water trap dispenser filters,no extreme cold operating,then extra additives may be a waste of money.

But then there's still the low sulphur/low lubrication question??????
 
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